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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
The Threeler
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Funky40



Joined: Sep 24, 2005
Posts: 875
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

I should know the angular degree of the common four position switches.
I don't get it......... Have to finish my Frontpanel layout.
I have the lorlin switches
( i have made a testfrontpanel for the switche , but all designs where false Embarassed )


oh, and i dont understand how to wire the switch .... Question
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frijitz



Joined: May 04, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Funky40 wrote:
oh, and i dont understand how to wire the switch .... Question

Did you look at the previous page? We gave pretty detailed instructions. If something is not clear from there, could you be more specific with your question?

Very Happy

Ian
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machine.cuisine



Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 61
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I ask this question with hesitance Embarassed , because I really like the way the Threeler sounds as I have it - but, in mode 1, with resonance knob all the way down, should I expect an output? (with an signal going in, of course, etc.)
Because (in mode 1) no matter where the Fc is, if the resonance pot is not turned up a 3rd of the way or so, there is no output.
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The Alison Project



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

machine.cuisine wrote:

Because (in mode 1) no matter where the Fc is, if the resonance pot is not turned up a 3rd of the way or so, there is no output.


I have built two Threeler's and both act the same way, so I think your good.

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Etaoin



Joined: Jun 30, 2005
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Location: Utrecht, NL

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You're probably using output 3? If you look at the schematic, you'll see that in mode 1, the res pot will also turn down output 3. I usually connect output 2 if I have it in mode 1.
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machine.cuisine



Joined: Jul 20, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
You're probably using output 3? If you look at the schematic, you'll see that in mode 1, the res pot will also turn down output 3. I usually connect output 2 if I have it in mode 1.


Yes, Output 3. I will try Out 2 with mode 1. Thanks for pointing this out.
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frijitz



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

machine.cuisine wrote:
I ask this question with hesitance Embarassed , because I really like the way the Threeler sounds as I have it - but, in mode 1, with resonance knob all the way down, should I expect an output? (with an signal going in, of course, etc.)
Because (in mode 1) no matter where the Fc is, if the resonance pot is not turned up a 3rd of the way or so, there is no output.

MC --

I don't remember that kind of behavior. I'll try to have a look at it later today. Are you using the Bridechamber board? What PS voltages?

Very Happy

Ian
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Etaoin



Joined: Jun 30, 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah, so it's not supposed to behave like that?

Mine has done so from the start, as, apparently, have others...

Bridechamber board at 15V.

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machine.cuisine



Joined: Jul 20, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
don't remember that kind of behavior. I'll try to have a look at it later today. Are you using the Bridechamber board? What PS voltages?


Bridechamber board and parts kit for 15V.
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frijitz



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Etaoin wrote:
You're probably using output 3? If you look at the schematic, you'll see that in mode 1, the res pot will also turn down output 3. I usually connect output 2 if I have it in mode 1.

This is correct. You do need to turn the res control up when using Mode1/Out3. But you only need to turn it up a little bit. On my prototype this is only about 1/10 of the pot's range. Perhaps you have a log pot? That would explain why you have to turn it up more.

Don't neglect this Mode1/Out3 combination. It makes a nice resonant lo-pass. Turn the input control down and the resonance up and you should see a nice ringy response tuning through the harmonics.

Very Happy

Ian
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machine.cuisine



Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 61
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

frijitz wrote:
Don't neglect this Mode1/Out3 combination. It makes a nice resonant lo-pass. Turn the input control down and the resonance up and you should see a nice ringy response tuning through the harmonics.


Well, Mode 1/Out 3 is the most common use for me!

I'll mention quickly, recently I've got a self-oscillating patch going with the Threeler (nothing fancy, but I've left it patched for a couple days now because I don't want to lose the sound until I've recorded the piece I'm working on):

Threeler Mode 3
Keyboard CV to Threeler V/Oct in
Aftertouch CV to Threeler FM in
Threeler Out2 to Threeler Audio in (turned up pretty high)
Threeler Res fully up, Freq to taste
Threeler Out3 and Out1 mixed into CGS Steiner VCF LowPass (with EG to its Cutoff - to taste)
Steiner VCF out to VCA controlled by ADSR.

This going to digital reverb and delay - makes for a cool lead and tracks very nicely (as good as a VCO for me)!
I was playing it for a friend the other day - it was fun to say, "there's no oscillators here". But it sounds damn good.
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Funky40



Joined: Sep 24, 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

frijitz wrote:
Funky40 wrote:
oh, and i dont understand how to wire the switch .... Question

Did you look at the previous page?

Very Happy

Ian

ok, thanks
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Etaoin



Joined: Jun 30, 2005
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Location: Utrecht, NL

PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

frijitz wrote:
This is correct. You do need to turn the res control up when using Mode1/Out3. But you only need to turn it up a little bit. On my prototype this is only about 1/10 of the pot's range. Perhaps you have a log pot? That would explain why you have to turn it up more.


No, mine is also just a tiny bit up, but I thought you meant it shouldn't behave like this at all.

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frijitz



Joined: May 04, 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Etaoin wrote:
No, mine is also just a tiny bit up, but I thought you meant it shouldn't behave like this at all.

I meant that I didn't remember having to turn it up 1/3 of the way.

Very Happy

Ian
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machine.cuisine



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

frijitz wrote:
Etaoin wrote:
No, mine is also just a tiny bit up, but I thought you meant it shouldn't behave like this at all.

I meant that I didn't remember having to turn it up 1/3 of the way.

Very Happy

Ian


well, I don't know if 1/3 was accurate anyways. sorry for confusion.
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Funky40



Joined: Sep 24, 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I built my threeler.
i have the input signal appearing on the output. no filtering, no pot that works, no threeler.......just the direct signal ( a little bit attenuated )
confusion while Wiring was really big !
I think the switch was the clearest to me, but i'm not shure about my switch itself as thatone has no lettering ( but i ckecked first with my DMM ).




what could it be ? any spontaneous Idea ?
any minimal settup how the filter should work ? does the switch must be wired that the module can work ?
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frijitz



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Funky40 wrote:
I built my threeler.

Great! Did you build from the kit or from the bare board?

Ian
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Funky40



Joined: Sep 24, 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

from the Kit, but i took my own Resistors
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frijitz



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Allright, parts should be good (as long as you didn't pick an incorrect resistor).

Please check to be sure the legs on the pots are not shorting to adjacent pads. The pots should be soldered a bit off the board, or you should clip the shoulders off the legs.

Which of the three outputs have a signal?

Ian
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Funky40



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

no pots soldered in, i used connectors.( i'm aware ot the pad Problem )
I have signal on Out one and two, stage three has also no out ( the wire is correct )

the board was good to solder, i don't found any problem, also not on the 2SA798. I checked with Halogen light.
The ICS are orientated correct,
and i was careful when soldering the styroflex caps.

thanks for caring
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frijitz



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quite difficult to work at a distance like this, but we should be able to get it eventually.

What was your difficulty in wiring up the panel? (It seems straightforward to me.)

You have the C Freq pot wired to V+, V-, and "F" on J2? And the In Lev pot wired to Gnd, Sig In jack and "In" of J2?

Ian
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Funky40



Joined: Sep 24, 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

frijitz wrote:
What was your difficulty in wiring up the panel? (It seems straightforward to me.)

I was at many points not _really_ shure. It starts with the minimal lettering and that you have to deal with different Names all the times.
But finally when looking to the schematics things seemed to be clear.
( see below how i wired )



the next point is J1 and J2.
i wire such connectors up with Ribboncable as Doepfer uses for the powerdistribution.
It begins that it is tricky to know which pin is which cable. but i had a close look and noticed all on the printed docs.
Also checking now it seems to be done right to me.


frijitz wrote:
You have the C Freq pot wired to V+, V-, and "F" on J2? And the In Lev pot wired to Gnd, Sig In jack and "In" of J2?

Ian


all PCb mount pots have connectors in where the Pots would be.
F freq, F mod, Res, and Res mod, those are wired correct. CW is left when looking from the back.
hmmm.............i took F Freq as Coarse, ahhh, and Coarse F i thought that means coarse fine.
Ok, one fault: coarse and finepots are exchanged

In ( J2) and the attenuator is wired correct.
fine tune looks good, F in the middle, V+ on the left. But what i did: i wired then V+ from the F coarse pot also to the 4 pole switch ( V+ and V- were also from J2 )
Res mod goes to the Res mod inputjack, FM to the Fmod input jack.


My 4pole switch has absoluetly no letters. but i checked it with the beep function from my DMM, wiring must be ok ( but finally i cant be shure ).
everything should be ok, but obviously it is not Wink


Out1 gives the inputsignal, but with slightly less gain,
out 2 the same, but with onemore time less gain,
out 3 has no signal,
not one Knob is doing anything exept the inputattenuator, ( i tweaked all knobs )
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frijitz



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK, it looks like you have checked all the panel controls.

I am assuming that you checked the PS voltages?

I would expect that you would see some signal on output 3 when the Res control is turned up. Could you double check that?

Next please check the voltages A0 and A1 at each switch position. They should read:
position 1: A0 = 0, A1 = 0
position 2: A0 = 12, A1 = 0
position 3: A0 = 0, A1 = 12
position 4: A0 = 12, Ao = 12

Hang in there, we'll get it!

Ian
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Funky40



Joined: Sep 24, 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

frijitz wrote:
I am assuming that you checked the PS voltages?
Ian

hmmmm...... scratch
ok, i found it:
my extensioncable to get the Power from the rack is broken on the V+ line. i had only V-..
the Baby is kicking now Very Happy .
Exept output three.
The wiring looks ok to me, but i assume it must be that.
the wiring of the switch is ok btw. I measured it.


frijitz wrote:

Hang in there, we'll get it!

Ian


Very Happy

ok, i will check wiring of Output three closer,
and if it not helps i can try to replace A4 and U2,
and ofcourse to measure the Voltage on those ICs too,
and to check soldering one more time, especially on that part of the electronic.
so far my Ideas for Troubleshooting Output three.
ok, time to put some knobs to the module, wanna hear and tweak the Baby a little bit Wink

thank you Sir
Very Happy
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Funky40



Joined: Sep 24, 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok, output three is running.
I didn't touched anything, just put the Knobs on and mounted the module into the Rack.
What is: when i turn the Resonance to full CCW , then the Output three is silent, but the outs 1 and 2 are running.

Ian Fritz wrote:
I would expect that you would see some signal on output 3 when the Res control is turned up. Could you double check that?
ok, thats then the other point of your checklist Wink

Very Happy

and i found the answer ( sorry)

frijitz wrote:
Etaoin wrote:
You're probably using output 3? If you look at the schematic, you'll see that in mode 1, the res pot will also turn down output 3. I usually connect output 2 if I have it in mode 1.

This is correct. You do need to turn the res control up when using Mode1/Out3. But you only need to turn it up a little bit. On my prototype this is only about 1/10 of the pot's range. Perhaps you have a log pot? That would explain why you have to turn it up more.

Don't neglect this Mode1/Out3 combination. It makes a nice resonant lo-pass. Turn the input control down and the resonance up and you should see a nice ringy response tuning through the harmonics.

Very Happy

Ian



thanks again Ian,
glad to have the Threeler running
Very Happy


onemore thing:
i built my module stuppidly for 12V, but it was intended to run on 15V.
is there any disadvantage to run the 12V-Threeler at 15V ?
I have no free space in my Cabinet which has +-12V and +-15V,
but i can arrange it new
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