Modular SDK

[Kassen]

[jamos]

Mosc's reasoning is valid and dead-nuts-on.

The G2 is a modular synthesizer, not a general-pupose sound-modeling system.

In any instrument design effort, there needs to be a set of goals and constraints. Otherwise, the instrumen thas no focus, is hard to understand and use, etc. This discussion doesn't recognize that. The G2 engineers have done, IMO, a fantastic job of defining what the instrument should be, and implementing something that meets that definition.

To extend mosc's reasoning, I would say that most modular synthesists aren't interested in writing and debugging code. I know that I'm not (and I'm a software developer.)

Another thing that's not being considered, is the incredible amount of effort that would be necessary on Clavia's part to open up this system. That would probably require the full-time efforts of at least one engineer. I'd rather see them working on new modules, improving efficiency, etc.

[Kassen]

[cebec]

Sorry for the OT rant, but:

Reaktor's sound quality is superb, in my opinion. Especially if you throw concern for 'analog emulation' etc. out the window. I don't know who's been telling you Reaktor doesn't sound good and that the Nord line is good for trance, only, but I'm inclined to disagree strongly. I don't think anyone here's really making trance and I don't think any of the artists I listen to who use the G2 or NM Classic, etc., make trance or anything closely resembling it.

Furthermore, unless you are running the G2 or Reaktor directly to a pair of active monitors, your soundcard's DACs, your mixer, amps, etc., could be coloring the sound noticeably. I know you already know this, though...

Also, there are at least a half a dozen soundcards out there in the sub-$1000 range that have may have either inferior or superior DAC/implementations to the G2. I've heard/owned some and so have many of my friends. Currently, the EMU 1820M I own is one of the best I've used/heard under $1000.

[Acidfever]

[Kassen]

Well, perhaps Reactor is a matter of taste, I mainly read it being compared to Tassman and there it apeared to be on the losing side, it was particularly implied that insufficient attention had been paid to matters related to aliassing. I never used it myself.

About the Nord line being for trance; I didn´t say that, I like the sound of the NM and the Lead1, I just dislike what comes afterwards. I never realised the difference and was always realy confused at the trance comments because I only know the NM and those people were talking about the Lead2 and the Lead3. Now that I have G2 here I realise what happened. I then spoke to some people with some insider knowledge and it turned out that indeed the DAC´s were changed after the NM and the Lead1.

This has nothing to do with people telling me things or with connecting directly to monitors, just with listening carefully. The huge mistake that was made in the design of the DAC´s from the G2, aside from the ringing that is still partially plaguing the anti-alias filter, is that for reasons unkown to me somebody thought it would be wise to make these DAC´s as linear as possible instead of as pleasant sounding as possible. Since "real" soundsources never sound linear due to interference by the air and so on this throws some psychacoustical clues in your hearing which I believe to be the largest objectively quanifyable side of this problem. There are other elements but those minly (imho) involve the evolution of our culturally shared aesthetics since the 60´s and soo are more subjective.

Either way, these things are either accidentally or intentianally shared by the type of mastering big trance productions receive in order to get that typical sense of "present space".

This is not just me going off on some tangent, I share this idea speciffically where the G2 is concerned with Rob and where overall changing aesthetics are concerned with one of my continent´s most senior mastering engineers.

Admittedly I by myself go a bit further and provocative stances like "Csound on a SoundBlaster16 OEM sounds better then a G2" are purely my own. Once the euphoria over current sample rates at the expense of actually listening has passed over I expect many who now look so surprised will agree.

[Acidfever]

So Kassen, basicly you are saying that the G2 is far inferior to other products? Do you own a G2 by the way?

Since you are so negative about it, i don't actually see why you even want to use it.

It's very tempting to constantly compare products with eachother i agree, but there is a time where you would better start using what you have instead of constantly being bothered by the differences between the different products on the market.

I am not even nearly an audioguru and i never noticed any problem with the G2's DAC's yet (i have only purchased it recently). this is why i cannot comment on this topic. You are almost making me feel i spend my money on a bad product.

[Kassen]

[Acidfever]

[zynthetix]

Reaktor 4 and the keyboard G2 are the modern synths I have. They both output from the same 96k m-audio firewire card and go to the same speakers. I don't really hear a difference when making a stagnant sine wave in each of them. If I compared the sound of the two, it would be like me comparing guitar tubes. I can't really hear the difference in either of these contexts. (I am not implying that there is no difference. It just does not strike me.)

I think the really important part is how these tools work. Yes you can patch the same thing in reaktor, the G2, even CSound. what it really comes down to is which interface you like. Personally, I find code, softsynths, and hardware synths each have an advantages. It is my belief that if each of these advantages and respective interfaces are used in a complimentary manner, the resulting working experience is more enjoyable than what would result from an "all in one" device.

Time will probably prove me wrong though.

[Kassen]

I find Live does a nice job as a sound source, filter box and audioprocessing work horse for me, I´d just like something else next to it, preferably something that wouldn´t go silent while loading so it could double as a customisable mixer. Right now I use a NM and a couple of analogue effects with it but those take up too much weight and space compared to how usefull they are.

The G2 won´t keep playing non-stop (like the NM) but the G2 brings a nice interface to the party.... The main alternative I see is a second latop dedicatedly runnning supercolider (that would probably be on Linux). This is more expensive (asuming a RME card, otherwise it´s possibly cheaper), but not by *that* much. A second laptop could also still be "check in" while a G2 is too large for that meaning it needs a flightcase or hard suitcase, meaning weight, etc.

Perhaps I should start using grooveboxes to make "V.A." sounds like everybody else and be done with it.
:¬/

[Kassen]