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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
"Son Of Storm Tide" Flanger
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interested?
yes
97%
 97%  [ 43 ]
no
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 44

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sduck



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

zthee wrote:
Would it be useless to use 2 pots instead of a dual gang - on the input and mix pots?


No, I think it would provide for some different effects, depending on how you used them.

zthee wrote:
Also, the BPol output isn't mentioned in the documents? (I think I've looked at everything at least twice..) Great place for a bipolar LED?


That spot can be used as a jumper or brought out as a switch to the front panel - I think I saw previously in this thread that if you connect these contacts it reverses the bounce direction.
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nerdware



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Would it be ok to replace the 50K pots with 100K pots? They appear to be used as voltage dividers. I'm guessing that the exact pot value isn't critical, but I'd like to check, just in case I've missed or misunderstood something.
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nerdware wrote:
Would it be ok to replace the 50K pots with 100K pots? They appear to be used as voltage dividers. I'm guessing that the exact pot value isn't critical, but I'd like to check, just in case I've missed or misunderstood something.


Should work, but you should connect a 100k resistor between ccw and cw end of the LFO MOOD potentiometer.
(Or increase R46 and R47 to 100k and decrease C11 to 2u2.)

JH.

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nerdware



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ahhh, yes. I see that now. Thanks!
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nerdware



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Now I'm confused by the power requirements for the AC wall wart. Schematic #7 says I should use a 2-wire AC wall wart giving 16-18V. Ok, I understand that. I just can't find any UK wall warts with AC voltage in that range. The nearest I can find is 12V and 24V. I doubt that 12V would work, but what about 24V? Will the regulators cope with that?

Is there an alternative? Schematic #5 suggests I can use 3-wire AC. Well, I have a 1A centre-tapped 17.5V AC linelump (a Yamaha PA-20), but that's big, heavy, and possibly overkill. However, it does appear to fit the spec. Am I mistaken?

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krisp14u



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://uk.farnell.com/multicomp/ac-1850/adaptor-18vac-500ma/dp/1176242?Ntt=ac/ac
would that not fit the bill

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jhaible



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

krisp14u wrote:
http://uk.farnell.com/multicomp/ac-1850/adaptor-18vac-500ma/dp/1176242?Ntt=ac/ac
would that not fit the bill


That looks good!

JH.

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nerdware



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
krisp14u wrote:
http://uk.farnell.com/multicomp/ac-1850/adaptor-18vac-500ma/dp/1176242?Ntt=ac/ac
would that not fit the bill


That looks good!

JH.

Excellent! Thanks, both of you. Very Happy

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jumunius



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi, I'm finally returning to this thing to finish it. What have people generally done about the 100n SMT caps on the solder side. Add them all? Wait and add them as needed to fix problems? Any advice on their necessity would be appreciated.

(For what it's worth, AFAIK I'm pretty much using the IC's as spec'd with no op-amp substitutions.)
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sduck



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I always just solder all of those on first before doing anything else, so I can forget about them. They're kind of a pain to do unless you can lay the pcb flat. I use these - 581-12065C104JAZ2A - that's a mouser part number.
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jumunius



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sduck wrote:
I always just solder all of those on first before doing anything else, so I can forget about them. They're kind of a pain to do unless you can lay the pcb flat. I use these - 581-12065C104JAZ2A - that's a mouser part number.


Ok, thanks, we have a silent consensus building around your reply. Solder them all it is!

But of course my board is all stuffed so I'll have to make due in terms of the laying it flat part.
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StephenGiles



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

"so I'll have to make due in terms of the laying it flat part"

"¿Que Mr Fawlty?"
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jumunius



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

StephenGiles wrote:
"so I'll have to make due in terms of the laying it flat part"
"¿Que Mr Fawlty?"


In reference to this, Manuel:

sduck wrote:
They're kind of a pain to do unless you can lay the pcb flat.


Wink
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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

you could try my method perhaps for SMT components
no need to lay flat
use very small blobs of blue tac to hold them in place on one end
and solder the opposite end then remove the blue tac and solder the
other end has always worked very well for me and its fast
the blue tac makes it very easy to pick and place
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wmonk



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

diablojoy wrote:
you could try my method perhaps for SMT components
no need to lay flat
use very small blobs of blue tac to hold them in place on one end
and solder the opposite end then remove the blue tac and solder the
other end has always worked very well for me and its fast
the blue tac makes it very easy to pick and place

thumright very good idea, thanks! does it solder a bit more difficult on the spot where the blue tac has been? Or are there no chemicals left on the board?

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jumunius



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

diablojoy wrote:
you could try my method perhaps for SMT components
no need to lay flat
use very small blobs of blue tac to hold them in place on one end
and solder the opposite end then remove the blue tac and solder the
other end has always worked very well for me and its fast
the blue tac makes it very easy to pick and place


Thanks, I'll give that a try! And at least this way if it doesn't work, I will have an easier time affixing the SMT caps to my wall. (Framing suggestions?) Wink
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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
does it solder a bit more difficult on the spot where the blue tac has been? Or are there no chemicals left on the board?


appears to solder exactly the same as normal
though if you look closely you can see where it has been under very bright light
you do have to let the parts cool down fully before removing the blue tac
seems to come away clean mostly the first time but if not a couple of dabs with some more blue tac gets any remainder off , even with that i find its quicker than thru hole
I have done quite a lot of SMT like this and haven't struck any problems with this method yet, but then I only use a 60/40 0.7 mm rosin cored solder
haven't tried it with any other type of solder like the water soluable stuff
I doubt this method would work so well if you needed to use added flux [paste , brush on or flux pen ]
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jumunius



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi, so I'm troubleshooting my flanger -- so far it sounds like a Flanger but many of the controls do very little to change the sound (i.e. Manual, LFO, Ext CV with a working LFO input, etc). I'm wondering if something is going wrong at the junction of all these voltages but I haven't found the culprit yet. Looking at schematic p1, if I measure the wiper of the Manual pot, I get a +/-15v range as I sweep the pot, as I should. Testing the junction of R1, C1 and R2, I get a +/-7.5 range from the same sweep. Testing the other side of R2 (the junction of all the control voltages) I get almost nothing unless I switch to millivolts. Does that seem wrong? It seems wrong tp me (although I am still fuzzy on a lot of the theory) but then the output of U1A swings from -3v to 6v (or is it -6v to 3 v, can't recall exactly).

I'm having issues with BBD2/Long Delay as well, but I have a few obvious things to test there, like swapping out my TDA1022.

Oh and thanks to everyone for the SMT bypass cap advice -- I did all 22 and it was a good learning experience in dealing with those little guys. Got pretty adept by the end!
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Fetafarmer



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just completed my SOST, and I really wanted to thank you, Jürgen! It's one of my favorite modules already, and using it reminds me of the first times that I really started experimenting with sound, with a room full of pedals and contraptions all plugged together. The on-board modulation really helps to give it some motion and vibrancy.

Thanks again for all you've created and contributed!
Kevin
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jumunius



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, still troubleshooting my SOST and making some progress. But still many things to debug. Here's two things that MAYBE somebody here can help clarify:

1) There's a loud, unpredictable thumping (sub freq sort of thing) that seems maybe associated with Bounce. I can post a sample later if it would help. It's somewhat irregular and doesn't seem to simply be responding to LFO, etc. Any ideas what would cause that?

2) LFO mode: triangle and S/H work, but slew/square does nothing. Why would that be? The schematic confuses me a bit. (Relevant sections here and here.) The shape switch seems to select which of the working waveforms goes to a junction with the square and one end of the LFO mod pot, with "off" being slew. Wouldn't this just average the slew and tri/SH signals? At any rate, if I scope that point with the switch set to slew, I get nothing. Of course my scope shows triangle and something like a S/H at their respective setting.

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SubG (deactivated)



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

you don't need a scope, make sure all your components are the right one
,that the solder job is perfect and that the wiring is exactly like in the documentation,and then it works immediately.

i built 2 of them
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jumunius



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SubG wrote:
you don't need a scope, make sure all your components are the right one
,that the solder job is perfect and that the wiring is exactly like in the documentation,and then it works immediately.

i built 2 of them


Yeah, I've checked these sections for wiring, and most of the components (I haven't verified every resistor value.) I'm sure the design works I'm just wondering if there might be a bad chip, a dead cap, etc, and before I go tearing everything apart I'd like to know where to start.

-Jim

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sduck



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have a feeling these two problems are related. My guess would be some sort of miswire somewhere - there are lots of places this could happen. I'd advise - take some time to cool off, get some rest, etc. Then inspect the wiring paths, starting at some different point than the one that you used originally - in other words, get a fresh perspective. The switch wiring is very complicated on these, it's easy to get things wrong.

Yes, the slew setting should connect to nothing. I'm not sure how the circuit works, except that when wired exactly as indicated it works properly, which isn't any help I realize. Again, double check the wiring around here, and you might want to do some continuity checks to make sure there are no shorts, or connections where there aren't supposed to be one. Also check your switch that its the right kind - that when it's in the middle position it's not connected to either (or both) of the other positions - some kind of switches do this.

I've never really understood what the bounce knob does, and tend to leave it off on mine most of the time - it really does some weird stuff fast when it's turned up. This thumping - is it possibly related to the speed of the lfo? I seem to recall someone getting a similar problem and being able to fix it by switching the delay chips - read back through this thread and see if I'm just imagining this.
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jumunius



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sduck wrote:
I have a feeling these two problems are related. My guess would be some sort of miswire somewhere - there are lots of places this could happen. I'd advise - take some time to cool off, get some rest, etc. Then inspect the wiring paths, starting at some different point than the one that you used originally - in other words, get a fresh perspective. The switch wiring is very complicated on these, it's easy to get things wrong

Thanks. Agreed about the switch wiring. It's a real headache. I've been going back through, comparing it to my wiring diagram, and haven't found the problem yet. Mine is a 3u and some of these switches seem tight and hard to get to -- I can only imagine how tight your 2u must be!

Anyways, I've attached my own wiring diagram, both for review (if anyone is so inclined) and also for future builders, as it might be handy to see some of these connections translated from schematics. Of course, since my build isn't working yet, it's possible my diagram is faulty.

Quote:
Also check your switch that its the right kind - that when it's in the middle position it's not connected to either (or both) of the other positions - some kind of switches do this.

Yeah, it's ON-OFF-ON, and behaving that way. That much I know.

Quote:
I've never really understood what the bounce knob does, and tend to leave it off on mine most of the time - it really does some weird stuff fast when it's turned up. This thumping - is it possibly related to the speed of the lfo? I seem to recall someone getting a similar problem and being able to fix it by switching the delay chips - read back through this thread and see if I'm just imagining this.

Bounce -- Numbertalk pointed back to the original "Storm Tide" (father) page that has some interesting info that presumably is relevant to some of the "Son of... " functionality.

"Now this is another Eventide feature. It's not the original circuit, but I have just used different components to avoid electrolytic capacitors, so all credit for this goes to Eventide here as well. The summed control voltage (Manual, Pedal, LFO, Envelope follower) is fed into a sub audio BPF, then into a nonlinear amplifier with positive feedback (not a schmitt trigger, but similar), and then filtered by a second BPF. A variable portion of this is mixed to the straight CV to control the BBD's clock frequency. The effect is most prominent on single-shot, non-periodic CV changes, such as a fast single Manual of Pedal sweep. The single sweep is followed by smooth "echoes" that go in either direction (faster clock and slower clock). This is to emulate the "bouncing" tape speed of reel-to-reel tape machines when the friction from a thump against the reel is suddenly released."

After reading this and doing further testing, I actually seem to get this weird thumping without Bounce on as well, so I assume it's nothing to do with the thump JH describes in the paragraph. And IIRC the lfo-related noise is more of a bleedthru thing, and I also get some bleedthru. Worse yet, I also don't get any actual Flange, just resonance, albeit very nice sounding resonance, if that makes any sense. So back to the drawing board.

Incidentally I rewatched your SOST video and didn't hear any thumping like I get, and none of the nice flange you get even with the Resonance set to CCW. Sigh.


JH_Flanger_3u_wiring.pdf
 Description:
Son of Storm Tide wiring diagram (for yet-to-be-working build!)

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 Filename:  JH_Flanger_3u_wiring.pdf
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sduck



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, my guess now is that you've got bad/fake delay chips. There's a rash of fake chips going around - maybe you've got some of those. Earlier in this thread there's some posts about this. I kind of took a chance and bought 12 chips from UTsource, and they all worked. Do you have any way of testing your chips? Or getting new/different ones? I'll happily send you my extra ones if that'll help, - pm me (don't expect fast replies - crazy holiday schedule).
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