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ASM-2
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Clack



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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, I just figured that out - literally 5 mins ago - thanks anyway. Bit of a mission to compare the parts list against the wiring diagram, would have been easier if the wiring had the values on it too!

lets hope I can get this baby up and running soon!!!

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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

for the sake of updates & consistency, it makes no sense to spread the part values over multiple pdfs - it's better to have them on a centralized BOM, albeit slower to cross-reference.
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There are many (and major) ways that Laurie could improve the ASM-2 experience. From my experience, mostly concerning layouts, BOMs, wiring etc.
Keep in mind that my experience may not be indicative of the support he offers today. It's based on the docs I received over 5 years ago.
I would definitely be in favour of all documentation for a particular module being in the one .pdf. I still find that looking at my PCB, trying to adjust trimpots, and working out which component is where means having three pdfs open at the same time, and switching between them, which is not very good.
I think this is mainly due to the lack of practical feedback, and therefore could be improved by people giving Laurie their reports of building difficulties. I must admit, I've been remit in this department, but then again, I'm using a "prototype" board, and I don't want to confuse Laurie regarding problems I have which I know have already been resolved on the latest PCBs.

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synthnl



Joined: Oct 19, 2007
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

I just finished my PCB.

http://synthnl.blogspot.com/2008/05/asm-2-part-4.html

Next project will be the front panel.

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey Synth.nl!
Just had a look at your site, the PCB seems to be coming along nicely. Are you getting the front panel made by someone else? (schaffer, etc.) or building your own from scratch?
I've got about 90 * 120nF caps sitting here. I'd teleport a few to you if it were worth it, but you've probably already got them. Which ones are they? ie: which module, des no.?
So has Laurie got all the associated info grouped by module into single pdfs yet?
I feel like I should get in contact with him and give him some feedback now that my ASM-2 is virtually finished. He visits this forum from time to time.
My only major issue is with the filters, neither of which give that warm, squelchy resonance with a smooth rolloff of other harmonics which is so musical and tactile as on the SH101. The SH101 is the only other analogue synth I've ever owned, so I only have that to compare with, but these seem very thin, and as you bring up the resonance, the lower frequencies drop right off and then the resonance almost immediately rings itself into a very unmusical, overdriven kind of screeching. There is a sweet spot (at quite low volume) but it's easy to miss it.
I'll be very interested to see what yours sound like, and if they're the same as mine, maybe we can find a way of taming it.
SneakTheif has finished an ASM-2 as well. I should point him towards this post and see what he thinks.
Keep up the good work!

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Tallhobbit



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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

To my eyes it looks as if the 120nF caps are for AC coupling of the Ring Modulator inputs. As such, I think that either 100nF or 150nF caps could be substituted for the 100nF caps. Also, a wire link should work if DC coupling is desired. I base this on the fact that Yves Usson has a dual ring modulator circuit on his Yusynth site that uses the same LM1496 Balanced Modulator chip and he has a DC coupling option on his schematic. It looks as if both RM's are based upon the the Suppressed Carrier Modulator circuit on the LM1496 data sheet. In that example, the carrier input is AC coupled with a 100nF cap while the modulator input is DC coupled.

I'm also building an ASM-2 and I got 120nF from Mouser. Granted, that doesn't do much good for our Euro-Friends but it shows that they are available.

James
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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the 24db VCF sounds great to me - and of course it kills the low frequencies when you boost the resonance, because that's how the moog ladders always worked. i never found it to be unmusical, but rather the opposite.

it could be a matter of personal taste though, or perhaps the pot values for the controls.

as for the variable-state filter, it sounds fine. i have the wrong resonance pot in their and in the last 1/6 of the knob rotation it goes into some wild untamed resonance. i love it!

i'm neutral on the musicality of that filter... it always seems to get the job done, but i always run to the moog first for that warm sound.

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synthnl



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank you all very much for the feedback. I just got a mail from a very friendly fellow synthbuilder that is going to order two 120 nF for me in his next order. I just love the Internet Smile So I'll stick to the original value.
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sneakthief wrote:
the 24db VCF sounds great to me - and of course it kills the low frequencies when you boost the resonance, because that's how the moog ladders always worked. i never found it to be unmusical, but rather the opposite.

it could be a matter of personal taste though, or perhaps the pot values for the controls.

as for the variable-state filter, it sounds fine. i have the wrong resonance pot in their and in the last 1/6 of the knob rotation it goes into some wild untamed resonance. i love it!

i'm neutral on the musicality of that filter... it always seems to get the job done, but i always run to the moog first for that warm sound.


Well, there must be something wrong with the way mine is put together. I've checked over the PCB, trace for trace, part for part, with the newest schematic, and couldn't find anything physically wrong with either of them. Maybe I've blown a chip or something (in both of them!) or maybe I'm just expecting a completely different kind of sound. I'm quite pleased with just about everything else, but the filters are definitely disappointing.

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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

should i post some sample of my filters using the asm-2 oscillators?
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That would be great Sneakthief!
I'll do some samples as well, so you can hear what I mean.

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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

all asm-2: 2 detuned saw waves and an lfo triggering an eg for the vcf and one for the vca. the first pass had no resonance, then for each progressive pass i boosted the resonance.

12dB low-pass filter

- 8-note sequence
http://chromaticon.com/modular/asm-2_12db_vcf.mp3

- single sustained note
http://chromaticon.com/modular/asm-2_12db_vcf-2.mp3

(...watch out for the wild resonance on the 12dB filter - i used a larger pot value for the resonance and it can get crazy Smile )

24dB low-pass filter

- 8-note sequence:
http://chromaticon.com/modular/asm-2_24db_vcf.mp3

- single sustained note
http://chromaticon.com/modular/asm-2_24db_vcf-2.mp3


(the sequence was courtesy the CGS Sequential Switch)

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Last edited by sneakthief on Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

actually, listening to the 12dB filter made me get off the fence about it. it's actually a clone of the oberheim SEM: http://elists.resynthesize.com/synth-diy/1996/12/755929/Re-ASM1-filter-self-oscillation.html

i like this implementation of it - i can't say if it sounds exactly like the original, but it's pretty juicy Very Happy

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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus - any thoughts on these? I posted them just for you to compare & contrast Very Happy
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry Sneakthief,
I've been trying to do a recording of my ASM-2 so we could compare the two sets of filters, but I keep getting distracted by other stuff.
Yours sound quite good. I had a quick check of mine, and there's definitely something "not quite right" about them, though they're probably not as bad as I was making out.
Did you put the compensation caps (10pF) on the State Variable? I'm still not 100% about mine. They are polystyrene but they have code of (100) on them. Which is kind of vague, (some would say it must be an EIA code, and therefore 10pF, although I have heard of polys which have the pF value printed on them with no "pF" and therefore it could be 100pF) 100pF would cause problems for sure, yeah?
I'll try to record a sample tonight and post it for you.

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Okay, here we go, 2 Triangle waves, into the VCFs with a slow LFO on the cutoff. Each LFO cycle I shift the resonance up one notch, from 0 -> 10.
One for each VCF.


ASM2-SV-VCF.mp3
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ASM2-TL-VCF.mp3
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Clack



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the state variable one doesn't sound too good at all , squeely in a bad way. sounds like its getting too loud and going over the limit of your recording device too
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Tallhobbit



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm getting close to completing my ASM-2 PCB but I can find any OA91 germanium diodes for the VCO's. Does anybody see a problem if I use 1N60A's or 1N34A's instead?
Thanks,
James
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synthnl



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

I just posted an update. Got the 120 nF's Smile

http://synthnl.blogspot.com/2008/07/asm-2-part-5.html

I'm going to build the PolyDAC PCB now. And then the front panel after that.

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Mick1



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Guys

Found your forum while looking at the ASM-2, Have just order the PCB from Elby and hope to get started soon on the Wizard.
Just started to design a front panel, and any hints would be great.
I haven't touched any electronics for years, so thought it would give me a chance to get some of the old skills refreshed.
Hope you don't mind if I come to you guys for help and advice, I have found a lot of things you guys have posted to be really useful already.

Will let you know how things progress.

Cheers for now
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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Enjoy your ASM-2 build. Maybe you've seen my page which shows some of my own experiences: http://www.sneak-thief.com/modular/

In any case, please consult the ASM-Wizard wiring guides when planning your front panel.

And try to make room for as many inputs and outputs as possible. That's what makes this modular so much fun.

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If any pics are missing, just let me know. Some may have been lost in the server crash last year. I'm pretty sure I've still got most of them, so I could re-post them.
I did a semi-patched out version which I called the Sorcerer. I can post the photoshop file of the front panel if you like, (if it's not still around here somewhere) but if you're doing the fully patched version, I'd stick to something closer to Elby's Wizard layout. Mine might give you some inspiration though I s'pose.
I'm sure your skills will be back up to scratch by the time you get it finished. It's quite a big project. It's a great starting point for a DIY modular though. You won't be disappointed. Very Happy
Feel free to ask any questions that come up. I pretty much know mine back to front now. And yes, there are still some things I'd like to tweak and test and calibrate etc. Wink

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Mick1



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the welcome guys.
Pcb is on the way from OZ to the UK as we speak, looking forward to that. Definatley going down the full modular route, but I need to check out the CD as some of the things on the Elby site seem a bit strange. Where is the wiring diagrams for the VCO's to front panel.? I can't find anything about the inverters.
I have been getting some of the components together, but I think I might have to get Elby's special component kit.
Love your Sorcerer Uncle K. an excellent job. ( any chance of a copy of the art work, I won't copy it)
I'll check out out site now sneak thief.
Catch you guys later
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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Re. front-panel wiring for VCO's:

http://www.elby-designs.com/asm2-wizard/module-vco1.pdf
http://www.elby-designs.com/asm2-wizard/module-vco2.pdf

...taken from this page:
http://www.elby-designs.com/asm2-wizard/asm2-wizard-about.htm

Like I said, you really need to consult the ASM-Wizard docs.

Re. inverter... I forget where the spare inverter is on the board. In any case, you'll run across it when you're wiring the board - just bring the inverter in/out to the front panel.

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loss1234



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:58 am    Post subject: lfo bleed? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey guys

i am close to doing the panel for my ASM2 board (and i am going to be using a few custom boards in addition) and am just testing out all the circuits. i have been really excited to hear what this board sounds like BUT in the last 2 days something has really rained on my parade.


to make a long story short, when i plug in my POWER ONE +/- 15 psu (which i am using in conjunction with laurie's +/-10volt reference and smoothing caps), i CAN hear the VCO just fine BUT the two lfo's are bleeding through it!! it is SO annoying and is really ruining the whole project for me at this point.

the ONLY way to get the lfo's to stop modulating the vco (which they are NOT hooked up to at all...there are no wires yet connecting them to the vco inputs and no solder bridges either) is to turn their speed to zero or to disconnect their opamps.

i have tried with and without the LEDS hooked up and with the LEDS it is worse but without it is still there.

any advice would be HIGHLY appreciated. did anyone else experience anything similar? how did you get rid of it?

and IF you used an external power supply, what kind did you use,etc.


thanks so much!!

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