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dasz



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

And my G2's were glorious last night. 16 DSP's running in sync.

Will post link to video of the show. It was quite a night. My first live PA set. Just amazing. Hearing my stuff on a good PA system was something else.

Good night.
/Dasz
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Congratulations Dasz! I hope to see a video of the event Very Happy
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:

Autechre.


Maybe I'm missing something but reading your post I thought you were going to say something about AE and the G2 or it's marketing but then you (seemingly?) dropped the link.

Could you elaborate?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm assuming Autechre use a G2? I wasn't really passing comment on the G2, more on the Juno 106, and the 106 merely being passed off as a 'crap synth'. I may also have interpreted XpanderXT's comment wrong- as when I read it again, it came across differently- in more of a positive way.

Either way, it's not the fault of the instrument, but the fault of the person behind it- and I'm not talking about Clavia.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
marketing


...and?

Well yes I'm with you there if that's what you mean too?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
I'm assuming Autechre use a G2?


Yes, they do.
They've used it on their last album & world tour.
I'm surprised to hear what Quaristice will sound like.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mother misty wrote:


I'm surprised to hear what Quaristice will sound like.


you mean you've already heard it without hearing it yet?? Shocked Wink

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
Kassen wrote:
marketing


...and?

Well yes I'm with you there if that's what you mean too?


This is getting really cryptic.

Since I live in The Hague I got to marvel at the G2 a bit before some others and I got to complain about it very early on as well.

Some timeless wisdom I spouted back then;

"This is way too large, they should make a tabletop model, this keyboard makes no sense, everybody who's into keyboards will have a keyboard already, they should integrate a proper sequencer interface instead, linkable to modules, if it doesn't easily fit into my Samsonite it's not a "live instrument" "

"Those dac's are way off"

"They should simply give one to Autechre and see what they get in return"

None of this could happen, I was told, for one thing the DAC's were already picked and couldn't be changed anymore. I think Clavia wants two things at the same time; Clavia wants to make a modular system and Clavia wants to make instruments for traditional keyboard players and the whole dance market, particularly IDM/glitch/experimental stuff they have no idea about (though there is a very real desire for open ended sequence-based instruments there) so I think their two desires don't really line up.

If you remember what happened after AE posted those MAX screen shots in SOS I don't think I was far off but maybe I'm over-estimating that market... Anyway, it's all kinda moot now. I think this whole development started much earlier anyway, probably with the last new NM OS where the emphasis was placed on keyboard patches with the mono/poly areas yet no way to spawn voices from within a patch.... It just doesn't match up except for some people who turn out to be in the small demographic that's still left.... I liked what Wan was doing a lot when I saw his band live once, for example.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:

This is getting really cryptic.



Welcome to my world! Laughing

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
... Since I live in The Hague I got to marvel at the G2 a bit before some others and I got to complain about it very early on as well.
Here people grow these synths in their garden... Wink
Quote:
I liked what Wan was doing a lot when I saw his band live once, for example.
Wan plays the G2 in a Zappa cover band, which are highly popular over here.

Wout
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:
Wan plays the G2 in a Zappa cover band, which are highly popular over here.


Better not move to Den Haag then? Shocked Laughing

Personally I was always a Beefheart man Wink

Fast and Bulbous! Cool

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:

Better not move to Den Haag then? Shocked Laughing


I dunno, I thought it was good fun, really.

The one disappointment was that he couldn't keep his afro on in the spotlight for the whole gig, but that's a skill that really takes a professional and and a lot of serious training. He'll get there. :¬p

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No comment...

Wout


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XpanderXT



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
....more on the Juno 106, and the 106 merely being passed off as a 'crap synth'. I may also have interpreted XpanderXT's comment wrong- as when I read it again, it came across differently- in more of a positive way.


To clear up my statement.

I meant the Juno 106 was an extremely limited synth that has about 3 sounds, when you add the chorus it has 2 sounds. It sold very well and has been used by many people.
It is the McDonald's hamburger of the synth world. Cheap, not very good but appealing to very large audience.
"OVER 1 TRILLION MEDIOCRE BURGERS SOLD"


The G2 and Nord Modular's both have enough possibilities to last a lifetime but it will not appeal to people who get overwhelmed by something deeper than a Minimoog. It is more of a gourmet's synth like any modular is.
Thus it won't sell as much as a McDonald's synth, which is too bad.


Even if Clavia doesn't update the modulars, they do deserve a salute for making something that they knew would not be a big seller. It shows that they have a passion for synths that runs deep.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

....At which point I feel compelled to point out that Mc Donalds is generally considered to be what one calls "fat".

I also have to point out I don't really like "gourmet" type food. It's not so much that it's bad food but typically it's disproportionately expensive and you have to wait a long time before it's done. Once it finally arrives there is a lot of emphasis on the presentation but when you are done going "wow" at the lay-out you realise the plate is almost empty and if you don't stop by Mc Donalds later on that night anyway you will still be hungry.

Me, I like to cook for myself. I'm quite particular about this. I tend to only use a heavy cast-iron wadjang on a very high fire. Without the high fire and a sense of danger it's no fun to me, it's essential that I must be doing at least two things at the same time at all times and it always must involve the largest knife around (once, much to my delight, I cooked in a kitchen that had a actual machete present). I tend to use a lot of hot spices yet not sample it before it's done and to me it's important that cooking must be done within the time span of one side of a 33RPM record. This has a few advantages to me. For one thing I can make a large pan, when I'm hungry I'll cook and eat what I think is a normal amount for two parents and a child and I can make it as spicy as I want, something restaurants don't tend to dare (aside from one Thai place I once went to which had scales of hotness that went up to 35, with "5" being hot for a normal Thai dish), it also feels "fast", more so then even fast-food where waiting is involved, I hate waiting. It's also surprising, I like picking stuff at the shop based on whim and see what I end up with,

This is, admittedly, overly dramatic, smaller knives, cutting vegetables before putting the pan on and less heat would decrease the danger of chopping off fingers or setting off fire-alarms once the sambal hits the the oil, but it's what I like so that's what I do.

;¬)

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
....At which point I feel compelled to point out that Mc Donalds is generally considered to be what one calls "fat".

I also have to point out I don't really like "gourmet" type food. It's not so much that it's bad food but typically it's disproportionately expensive and you have to wait a long time before it's done. Once it finally arrives there is a lot of emphasis on the presentation but when you are done going "wow" at the lay-out you realise the plate is almost empty and if you don't stop by Mc Donalds later on that night anyway you will still be hungry.

Me, I like to cook for myself. I'm quite particular about this. I tend to only use a heavy cast-iron wadjang on a very high fire. Without the high fire fand a sense of danger it's no fun to me, it's essential that I must be doing at least two things at the same time at all times and it always must involve the largest knife around (once, much to my delight, I cooked in a kitchen that had a actual machete present). I tend to use a lot of hot spices yet not sample it before it's done and to me it's important that cooking must be done within the time span of one side of a 33RPM record. This has a few advantages to me. For one thing I can make a large pan, when I'm hungry I'll cook and eat what I think is a normal amount for two parents and a child and I can make it as spicy as I want, something restaurants don't tend to dare (aside from one Thai place I once went to which had scales of hotness that went up to 35, with "5" being hot for a normal Thai dish), it also feels "fast", more so then even fast-food where waiting is involved, I hate waiting. It's also surprising, I like picking stuff at the shop based on whim and see what I end up with,

This is, admittedly, overly dramatic, smaller knives, cutting vegetables before putting the pan on and less heat would decrease the danger of chopping off fingers or setting off fire-alarms once the sambal hits the the oil, but it's what I like so that's what I do.

;¬)


So, in the context of musical instrument metaphors, are you saying:

"I like to make my own synths. I'm quite particular about this. I tend to only use high quality components, and I keep the meters hot with signal. Without the high levels and a sense of danger to my ears it's no fun to me, it's essential that I must be turning at least two knobs at the same time at all times and it always must involve the most sweet sounding filter (once, much to my delight, I produced in a studio that had a actual moog filter present). I tend to use a lot of glitch generating programs yet not listen to the result until it's done and to me it's important that producing must be done in real time, all live recording. This has a few advantages to me. For one thing I can make a long improv set, when I'm inspired I'll produce and compose to what I think is a normal amount for two parents and a child that are into electronic music, and I can make it as experimental as I want, something major artist don't tend to dare (aside from one Thai place I once went to which had different dancefloors of varying genres that went up to 35 dance floors, with the 5th one being standard music for a normal Thai club), it also feels "fast", more so then even a live band where waiting for them to tune up is involved, I hate waiting. It's also surprising, I like picking modules at the shop based on whim and see what I end up with,

This is, admittedly, overly dramatic, cheaper components, cutting beats before putting the DAW on "record"and less volume would decrease the danger of blowing out my ears or annoying my neighbors once the bassline hits the the groove, but it's what I like so that's what I do."

or you know... did you just mean... cooking?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I wrote a long post here, then remembered why I used a analogy and edited it down to this. Instead I'll quote a bit from a old game book;

Quote:
Analogies are dangerous, Amanda, because the world is like a sandcastle.


Yours,
Kas.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

XpanderXT wrote:

Even if Clavia doesn't update the modulars, they do deserve a salute for making something that they knew would not be a big seller. It shows that they have a passion for synths that runs deep.


I don't think Clavia have ever been really 'passionate' about synthesisers, otherwise they wouldn't have 'finished' the G2. Would you say that Ford are passionate about cars? Clavia saw (like most other manufacturers), a hole in the market and made a quality instrument to fill that hole. The Nord Modular was never supposed to be what it is today- it wasn't Nordelius' idea I believe in the first place. I understand that someone else wondered why he hadn't made it into a synth (it was I believe, some DSP for working out what to do next).

Clavia are just another company out there to make money. Nothing else. It's just what they did was rather cool. I suspect someone else will take up the challenge sometime in the future- for one there is Arturia.

It's worth taking a trip round a car factory. It really sheds light on to these things. Scale economies and the like.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

kcinsu wrote:
Kassen wrote:

;¬)
cooking?



Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
kcinsu wrote:
Kassen wrote:

;¬)
cooking?



Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing


Now that I'm officially welcome in your world I appreciate the abstract posts a lot more.

Maybe I just should've said;
Quote:

McDonalds is fat.
I like cooking myself.


But that's not as elegant, for one thing the metaphor is broken in two ways that contradict eachother. I thought about some stuff involving Jesus but then that's so easily offensive.

Do you give classes?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
XpanderXT wrote:

Even if Clavia doesn't update the modulars, they do deserve a salute for making something that they knew would not be a big seller. It shows that they have a passion for synths that runs deep.


I don't think Clavia have ever been really 'passionate' about synthesisers, otherwise they wouldn't have 'finished' the G2.

Clavia are just another company out there to make money. Nothing else. It's just what they did was rather cool. I suspect someone else will take up the challenge sometime in the future- for one there is Arturia.

It's worth taking a trip round a car factory. It really sheds light on to these things. Scale economies and the like.


I would totally disagree with that statement. If they wanted to make money, building synths is a horrible business to try to do that in. I've worked at companies, I have friends at companies and they all have a common foundation that they love gear and were all musicians in their spare time. I worked at Roland, their annual sales were about equal to the amount of dog food that is sold in 1/2 a day from one company. this was at their peak in the early 90's. They are about 2/3 of what they were now because the market is dying.
Even at big heartless Roland, the owner is a keyboard player who loves gear, the US president does as well. Business is a part of it and has to be to keep the doors open but these are small companies. Much smaller than you would think. There is a perception of the size of the MI market by musicians that is totally unreal. The guitar market is huge, the drum market is huge, but synths and keyboards are tiny. This is not specualtion but knowledge of this market.
It has nearly 0 parallels to the car industry other than they both make a product.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:54 pm    Post subject: OS Update Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have just read this thread after last reading it when it was first posted. It is very sad that things have not changed since then. It is apparent many current owners (though not all) are pretty upset.
I feel that the market for hardware synths is getting harder. Profits are low. I would think this fact would spur Clavia into considering the possibility of making some money from it's current base of Modular users. I don't know about most of you but I personally would pay typical software update prices for a major update of the G2's software. Since this sort of thing is a high profit route I cannot understand why Clavia hasn't moved in that direction. How many NM and G2 systems are out there? What percentage of their owners paying $100-200 or so for updated software would it take to make it a worthy business proposition. Even making $50 or so for a minor "here's a few extra modules" update would make Clavia some high profit cash flow.
How much would you pay for a major software update?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

XpanderXT wrote:

It has nearly 0 parallels to the car industry other than they both make a product.


Not so. The way in which a automatically-fabricated product is made affects how it's constructed. You can tell by the way in which something is build roughly how many were made.

The G2 would not be constructed as it is if it were hand made and if ten times as many copies would have been expected it would've been constructed yet differently. Look at the top-right and top left of the keyboard, where it touches the plate-steel case;

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Also notice how all buttons come from the same mold and how all the knobs are knob-types that also get used in other Clavia instruments. Notice I mentioned the DAC's couldn't be changed if Clavia wanted to.

All of that gets affected by a process of which the automobile industry is one of the clearest examples. Another great example I have right here are two joypads from the same manufacturer. One has force-feedback, the other doesn't, yet upon inspection it turned out that both had the hardware for force-feedback, it is just disabled in the internal software for one of them (that was 10 bucks cheaper) as in that way the whole line-up is more cost-efficient to fabricate.

This same process, BTW, affects how restaurants work. Gourmet chefs, I fear, are cooking to make money,

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kcinsu



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would pay for an update...

people update software... so why not hardware?

These things are investments! Dedicated hardware, that cost a fair share. of COURSE I would pay more to see my investment/instrument grow and solidify.
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blue hell
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd pay for an update I guess, but probably not all people would. It might tear the user base apart that way, we now can all use each other's patches - that might end. Otoh, although we can use each other's patches we can't use each other's performances always ...
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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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