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Fozzie
Joined: Jun 04, 2004
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 Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:02 am Post subject:
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| gomidas wrote: | Great News 
They don't talk about modules but they do say OS update.... |
Sorry to be a bit more pessimistic; they do not mention an OS update, but the editor and the drivers. Of course I would love some bugfixes and other things, but I'm not counting on it. Merely having an editor and drivers that are functional for a good number of years to come is welcome to me.
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dorremifasol
Joined: Sep 28, 2006
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Location: Barcelona, Spain
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:09 am Post subject:
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| Quote: | | Sorry to be a bit more pessimistic; they do not mention an OS update, but the editor and the drivers. Of course I would love some bugfixes and other things, but I'm not counting on it. Merely having an editor and drivers that are functional for a good number of years to come is welcome to me. |
That's exactly what I think. In fact, I wouldn't expect more than what they say, new drivers and editor update (probably to support the new drivers?) so probably there will be no new functions.
But, we have been asking for the product continuity in form of drivers and updated editor (among other things) and that's what they will provide. I think its fair.
I couldn't think of any other company that updates the software for their products 4 years after it has been released. Specially for a niche product like the G2.
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dasz
Joined: Oct 16, 2004
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Location: victoria, canada
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:19 am Post subject:
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awesome. patience pays off.
/Dasz |
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Kassen
Janitor
Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 7678
Location: The Hague, NL
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:27 pm Post subject:
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| dorremifasol wrote: |
I couldn't think of any other company that updates the software for their products 4 years after it has been released. Specially for a niche product like the G2. |
No? I think it's entirely normal to make sure drivers for products that are still for sale work with modern OS's. It's a 2000 bucks synth, not some 5 bucks mouse, after all.
These things are a commitment, both to users and to manufacturers. Clavia did the right thing here but it hardly goes beyond what can be expected.
A bit on the sour side is that in the same period this happened MS is announcing they are working on a new Windows for next year.
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cappy2112
Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2500
Location: San Jose, California
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:44 pm Post subject:
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[quote="Kassen"] | dorremifasol wrote: |
A bit on the sour side is that in the same period this happened MS is announcing they are working on a new Windows for next year. |
Just like with Vista, what is the point of upgrading, just because a new OS is being released? Are all of the newfound problems worth it?
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Kassen
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:17 pm Post subject:
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| cappy2112 wrote: |
Just like with Vista, what is the point of upgrading, just because a new OS is being released? Are all of the newfound problems worth it? |
Well, so far it looks like they are taking it in the right direction. It's supposed to be a reaction on all the comments of bloat in Windows. The core of this "Windows7" is supposed to be quite small at 32MB. Well, small for a modern OS. It's rumoured to run in 40MB of ram.
I think those number are still too high for a OS that's ATM text only but I agree with the direction. If they keep at it in this vein it may well be a good direction and quite worthwhile.
I can understand how some people don't care about specs like that compared to modern computers but It's my opinion that it makes no sense to buy a modern computer if you are going to waste it all on overhead; you might as well run Win98lite on a P1. I feel that if demands on CPU's are increasing yet clockspeeds are hardly going up then something, somewhere will have to give and right now OS overhead on mainstream OS's would be the first thing to look at for that, Not everything benefits from multi-threading, after all.
So, yeah, I do see a point to this. Considering the state of the CPU market the phase of using ever more bloated OS's to sell ever faster CPU's should be over for a while.
Well, I can dream, can't I? :¬D
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Kassen
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:29 pm Post subject:
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| Kassen wrote: |
A bit on the sour side is that in the same period this happened MS is announcing they are working on a new Windows for next year. |
Yes I too read about this earlier. I also read that they (Microsoft) are tempted to strip all the excess baggage out too. That would make sense for a whole load of reasons, however, we shall see 
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kcinsu
Joined: Aug 29, 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:43 pm Post subject:
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| This is great news! |
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Kassen
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:48 pm Post subject:
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| v-un-v wrote: | | however, we shall see |
My perspective exactly.
I suppose stranger things have happened.... but right now I can't think of many.
:¬)
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rhombus
Joined: Mar 17, 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:39 pm Post subject:
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| cappy2112 wrote: | | Just like with Vista, what is the point of upgrading, just because a new OS is being released? Are all of the newfound problems worth it? |
In a lot of cases, it's not a matter of "upgrading". For example, I just got a new laptop and it came with Vista installed. Due to it having an SATA drive, no floppy drive, and Toshiba not even bothering to make SATA text mode drivers, there's no easy way for me to install XP on this laptop. For my desktop, I need Vista because I like to play games and DirectX 10 is available only on Vista (ie, I use my computer for more than just running the G2 editor). Honestly, Vista has been working out great for me lately. nVidia has good drivers now, MOTU has nice Vista drivers now, etc. It certainly was awful this time last year. So yeah, there's more and more cases where people pretty much have to upgrade, and Microsoft is pushing that along. If there were a Linux version of the G2 editor I'd just get an Asus EEE PC for the purpose of having a dedicated machine for the editor. |
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cappy2112
Joined: Dec 24, 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:44 pm Post subject:
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| rhombus wrote: | | cappy2112 wrote: | | Just like with Vista, what is the point of upgrading, just because a new OS is being released? Are all of the newfound problems worth it? |
In a lot of cases, it's not a matter of "upgrading". For example, I just got a new laptop and it came with Vista installed. Due to it having an SATA drive, no floppy drive, and Toshiba not even bothering to make SATA text mode drivers, there's no easy way for me to install XP on this laptop. For my desktop, I need Vista because I like to play games and DirectX 10 is available only on Vista (ie, I use my computer for more than just running the G2 editor). Honestly, Vista has been working out great for me lately. nVidia has good drivers now, MOTU has nice Vista drivers now, etc. It certainly was awful this time last year. So yeah, there's more and more cases where people pretty much have to upgrade, and Microsoft is pushing that along. If there were a Linux version of the G2 editor I'd just get an Asus EEE PC for the purpose of having a dedicated machine for the editor. |
I bought a Toshiba laptop late last year, and made it a point to buy it with XP on it. But the opportunities for buying Xp-compatible machines (with drivers available) are dwindling, unfortunately.
Text mode drivers?????
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rhombus
Joined: Mar 17, 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject:
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| cappy2112 wrote: | | Text mode drivers????? |
Text mode or console mode drivers. If you pop an XP installation CD into the drive, it loads a sort of DOS only mini-OS to get the installation started. The whole blue screen, loading drivers, choose which drive you want to install on, etc. If you've never installed XP on a blank drive before then you wouldn't know what I'm talking about. Anyways, the drivers needed for accessing non-IDE hard drives (which the BIOS takes care of) during XP's installation have to be provided by the hard drive controller chipset manufacturer. XP shipped without standard SATA drivers, so these have to be loaded either by putting them on a floppy disk or slipstreaming them into the XP installation itself using another computer. I had to do this to get XP to install on my desktop machine (originally, altho I run Vista on it now for other reasons), which used an nVidia SATA/RAID controller. Toshiba doesn't even bother listing this type of driver on their support site for my Tecra M9 so I'm up the creek without a paddle. The Vista installation CD on the other hand has SATA drivers on the disk and the installation automatically recognizes SATA hard drives. My Tecra M9 was given to me by the company I work for so I didn't have a choice of operating systems, it came with Vista and while I wanted to put XP on it, all of my research for the appropriate text mode drivers led me to dead ends. Hence, no XP for me as much as I'd prefer to have it. |
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Fozzie
Joined: Jun 04, 2004
Posts: 875
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject:
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| rhombus wrote: | | If there were a Linux version of the G2 editor I'd just get an Asus EEE PC for the purpose of having a dedicated machine for the editor. |
My sister has one on order (they are not out yet here in the Netherlands) and made me aware of their existence. They are also capable of running XP, so it could be done. I thought about it, but can't justify it. Very GAS-evoking things though, those Eees.
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rhombus
Joined: Mar 17, 2005
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Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:09 pm Post subject:
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| Fozzie wrote: | | My sister has one on order (they are not out yet here in the Netherlands) and made me aware of their existence. They are also capable of running XP, so it could be done. I thought about it, but can't justify it. Very GAS-evoking things though, those Eees. |
Except no CD drive in the EEE PC so you're looking at just about as much trouble installing XP on it as installing it on a laptop with SATA hard drives and no text mode drivers. Unless the EEE PC can boot off a USB flash drive? No, I wouldn't bother running Windows on that tiny little machine anyways. It wasn't a serious suggestion on my part anyways. The real solution is use a VM under Vista until Clavia delivers those drivers. |
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Fozzie
Joined: Jun 04, 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject:
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Well, there are lots of reports on the net about how to install XP yourself (via usb drive or whatever), but Asus also delivers XP preinstalled for a while now (more expensive of course). Still, you'd have to wait and see whether everything works and the screen resolution is (too) low. But still, they are so tiny and cute .
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:44 pm Post subject:
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Hmm- interesting.
Perhaps now with Windows 7 on the horizon, for once, and just like the good 'ol days, we may just for once see an Apple driver before the Microsoft one 
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anigbrowl
Joined: Jan 21, 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject:
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| Kassen wrote: |
No? I think it's entirely normal to make sure drivers for products that are still for sale work with modern OS's. It's a 2000 bucks synth, not some 5 bucks mouse, after all. |
True...but you will sell a lot more mice at $5 than synths at $2000. It's great that they do this, but also lucky for us. Like I said before - we are a small amrket, and not such a big overlap with 'keyboardists' who just want a nice tone but not the deep programming. To them we are geeks 
| Quote: | | A bit on the sour side is that in the same period this happened MS is announcing they are working on a new Windows for next year. |
Eh, you are never happy! At least it means they are responding to people who did not find Vista exciting/valuable. It's funny, Vista is the first Windows for a long time where I don't feel anything. It looks really pretty but all superficial. Maybe I am just getting old I never had a security problem with XP but then I never expected my operating system to handle that for me anyway. |
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Kassen
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:27 pm Post subject:
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| anigbrowl wrote: |
True...but you will sell a lot more mice at $5 than synths at $2000. It's great that they do this, but also lucky for us. Like I said before - we are a small amrket, and not such a big overlap with 'keyboardists' who just want a nice tone but not the deep programming. To them we are geeks |
Oh, you will still sell more if you sell $80 mice with 7 buttons but you're not making a lot in either case if you don't have drivers.
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Eh, you are never happy! |
Not so! I am quite happy now. I ported a overdrive trick that Rob developed to ChucK just now and it works nicely at what seems to be a reasonable CPU cost that I might still be able to get down a bit. Just this afternoon I got a new (tobacco) pipe that I'm also quite happy with,
Really, I'm quite content at the moment.
| Quote: | | At least it means they are responding to people who did not find Vista exciting/valuable. It's funny, Vista is the first Windows for a long time where I don't feel anything. It looks really pretty but all superficial. Maybe I am just getting old I never had a security problem with XP but then I never expected my operating system to handle that for me anyway. |
Yeah, I think everybody felt the same. I know exactly *one* guy who runs Vista. He went "oh pritty" then he went "oh, hard on the computer" a bit later and now he's left it be in fear of installing a OS himself. I think that's how the average consumer looks at it. Aero (Vista's graphical shell thingy) should've been a paid optional upgrade.
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:44 pm Post subject:
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| Kassen wrote: | | Yeah, I think everybody felt the same. |
I'm starting to get interested maybe in vista now that the G2 gets drivers maybe, if only it were to see how bad things really are 
BTW ... does anyone know if the G2 emulator works under vista ?
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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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cappy2112
Joined: Dec 24, 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject:
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| rhombus wrote: | | cappy2112 wrote: | | Text mode drivers????? |
Text mode or console mode drivers. If you pop an XP installation CD into the drive, it loads a sort of DOS only mini-OS to get the installation started.
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I've installed xp too many times, but only had to use a separate cd for sata once.
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XP's installation have to be provided by the hard drive controller chipset manufacturer. XP shipped without standard SATA drivers, so these have to be loaded either by putting them on a floppy disk or slipstreaming them into the XP installation itself using another computer. I had to do this to get XP to install on my desktop machine (originally, altho I run Vista on it now for other reasons), which used an nVidia SATA/RAID controller. Toshiba doesn't even bother listing this type of driver on their support site for my Tecra M9 so I'm up the creek without a paddle.
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it's likely the chipset is from Intel, or a company other than Toshiba, and that's where you may find a driver.
of operating systems, it came with Vista and while I wanted to put XP on it, all of my research for the appropriate text mode drivers led me to dead ends. Hence, no XP for me as much as I'd prefer to have it.[/quote]
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ian-s
Joined: Apr 01, 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:16 pm Post subject:
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| Blue Hell wrote: | | BTW ... does anyone know if the G2 emulator works under vista ? |
Yes it does.
I've had a new PC with vista for one or two weeks now. IE7 has crashed three times, half way through a page load. When I say crash I mean complete freeze, only a forced power down will do anything.
Another time, when a network setup dialog stopped responding, I started task manager and noticed a network tab, which I selected then task manager stopped responding. I could start another instance of task manager but it didn't work, so had to power cycle again.
Changes they made to IIS mean none of my asp code works on localhost.
I have a very long list of patches and kludges to work through to try and get it working.  |
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Static Motion
Joined: Nov 03, 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:24 am Post subject:
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I guess the numerous mails they got must have worked well...
Here's my answer to demand an update, especially for Mac Intel & Vista users !!!
"Hi
We are sorry for any confusion that we may have caused about this in the past, so we thought it would be a good idea to go public, on our web site as of today:
On January 24, 2008, members of the development team at Clavia began the process on updating the editor and the drivers for the Nord G2 Modular. The team are working simultaneously on a 32 bit and 64 bit Vista driver and an Intel compatible Mac version of the editor. We cannot estimate on a release date yet, this will be announced later.
The Vista drivers and the Intel-compatible editor will be available as a free download on this website when they are completed.
Sorry for the late reaction, but we were not able to go public with this until today.
Best regards,
Tomas Johansson
Product Manager - Clavia DMI AB"
EDIT - I see someone was ahead of me here
But it's certainly GOOD news |
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cebec
Joined: Apr 19, 2004
Posts: 1100
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:02 am Post subject:
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| Static Motion wrote: | I guess the numerous mails they got must have worked well...
Here's my answer to demand an update, especially for Mac Intel & Vista users !!!
"Hi
We are sorry for any confusion that we may have caused about this in the past, so we thought it would be a good idea to go public, on our web site as of today:
On January 24, 2008, members of the development team at Clavia began the process on updating the editor and the drivers for the Nord G2 Modular. The team are working simultaneously on a 32 bit and 64 bit Vista driver and an Intel compatible Mac version of the editor. We cannot estimate on a release date yet, this will be announced later.
The Vista drivers and the Intel-compatible editor will be available as a free download on this website when they are completed.
Sorry for the late reaction, but we were not able to go public with this until today.
Best regards,
Tomas Johansson
Product Manager - Clavia DMI AB"
EDIT - I see someone was ahead of me here
But it's certainly GOOD news |
I thought it might be telling that when I e-mailed one of the two G2 developers I had contact with during beta-testing v1.40, the e-mail came back undeliverable. Perhaps they have had some manpower problems, then...(*pure speculation*) |
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Derek Cook
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