Author |
Message |
Phillip Jeffries

Joined: Aug 23, 2008 Posts: 15 Location: Black Lodge
|
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:20 am Post subject:
|
 |
|
djthomaswhite wrote: | After playing with my prototypes I have found that subtle control over audio level and incoming CV is VITAL to re potential of this module being realized.
Thomas |
As with most of the filters I've used. I'm lobbying for the 1u panel, because I like to have the ability to use the mixer for whatever application I want if I'm not using the filter. If I have 3 filters, all 2u with built in audio mixer (inputs), but I'm only using 1 filter in a patch, thats 2 mixers gone to waste that could have been put to use elsewhere. I like my modulars, 'modular' if you will  |
|
Back to top
|
|
 |
djthomaswhite

Joined: Nov 22, 2007 Posts: 140 Location: Orange, CA
|
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:03 am Post subject:
|
 |
|
Scott at Bridechamber has given me the inital green light that the two panel designs I presented above will be converted to Bridechamber style and hopefully included on the next batch of panels. No pricing yet but will be way cheaper and better quality than the FPE panels!
Thank goodness for Scott and his willingness to support our needs in the sit community
Thomas _________________ Thomas
www.naturalrhythmmusic.com/diy.html |
|
Back to top
|
|
 |
numbertalk

Joined: May 05, 2008 Posts: 992 Location: Austin, TX
Audio files: 5
|
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:38 am Post subject:
|
 |
|
Thanks very much for this information - good to know.
djthomaswhite wrote: | IMHO, there is no advantage to a quad unit. The original buchla format was just 4 lpgs in one panel with no internal relatioship. Corre t me if I am wrong here.
So I propose the two units, both being single in design. 4 single units could be placed next to each other and patched up freely. Or, one could make the dual units to have the inboard mixer for audio and pots for control. The same goes for CV sections. After playing with my prototypes I have found that subtle control over audio level and incoming CV is VITAL to re potential of this module being realized. watch my videos and this is evident, mainly with respect tohaving built in resonance. I will build two double units and two more single units for myself and my system.
Frac thoughts... I will not lobby to have a Bridechamber Frac panel as I don'T want to directly effect plan-B, Doepfer or Wiard small format sales. Principle folks, that's all. Thoughts?
Thomas |
|
|
Back to top
|
|
 |
cbm

Joined: Oct 25, 2005 Posts: 381 Location: San Francisco
|
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:30 pm Post subject:
|
 |
|
djthomaswhite wrote: | IMHO, there is no advantage to a quad unit. The original buchla format was just 4 lpgs in one panel with no internal relatioship. Corret me if I am wrong here. |
There is one advantage: the four LPG sections are summed to a mix out in the 292.
Maybe not a huge advantage, but still useful.
-C _________________ Chris Muir
http://www.eardrill.com <– My jobby (more than a hobby, less than a job) |
|
Back to top
|
|
 |
djthomaswhite

Joined: Nov 22, 2007 Posts: 140 Location: Orange, CA
|
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:22 pm Post subject:
|
 |
|
Summed output...
That could be done with the on board mixer sections provided one does not use the mixers to sum multiple audio/cv signals on every modules. For example, if you are using 4 PCB's to make a quad unit, using direct ins like the original 292 did would leave 8 3 input mixers available for patching however you could dream up. 4 of those would have an inverting output. You could easily use two sections mixed by a third to get the sum, or even use one section and kludge on an extra resistor to get 4 inputs from one section. This is the benefit to the pads and jumpers on the PCB's as designed. Time to get creative and to each have the freedom to "do our own thing."
MOTM Panels...
Just to clear up my previous post, Bridechamber will be making both panels. I recommend you to build a single for sure, but to also build a double. The Youtubes I made would not be possible without a single 1U LPG and 2 external mixers. I am all for keeping things "modular 100%" but with so many patch cords already it is sometimes nice to just have what you need right on what you need instead of a patch cord distance away. I think that those who build one and play with it a while will want to build another with the mixer sections on the panel. It just makes it easier to work with when trying to get sounds quick, and your knobs to tweak are all next to each other. I am sure the 1U will be more popular, but the 2U will also get some glory too.
Thanks guys!
Thomas _________________ Thomas
www.naturalrhythmmusic.com/diy.html Last edited by djthomaswhite on Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top
|
|
 |
synthetic
Joined: Jun 02, 2007 Posts: 76 Location: Glendale, CA
|
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:19 pm Post subject:
|
 |
|
I can't decide, but I'll probably do the 1u panels since I'm building two of them. |
|
Back to top
|
|
 |
wmonk
Joined: Sep 15, 2008 Posts: 528 Location: Enschede, the Netherlands
Audio files: 15
|
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject:
|
 |
|
For me, the 2U panel is ok. Get the most out of the design, and get a mixer for free.  |
|
Back to top
|
|
 |
/mr

Joined: Aug 05, 2007 Posts: 223 Location: Elektron City, Sweden
Audio files: 1
|
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:26 am Post subject:
|
 |
|
cbm wrote: | djthomaswhite wrote: | IMHO, there is no advantage to a quad unit. The original buchla format was just 4 lpgs in one panel |
There is one advantage: the four LPG sections are summed to a mix out in the 292.
Maybe not a huge advantage, but still useful. |
I'd use switching jacks on the CV/audio inputs to pass input signals to the next LPGs if nothing is connected there, and/or to connect the LPGs in series as default. Lots of advantages are close, if the module is not a single LPG.  |
|
Back to top
|
|
 |
fonik

Joined: Jun 07, 2006 Posts: 3950 Location: Germany
Audio files: 23
|
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:34 am Post subject:
|
 |
|
/mr wrote: | I'd use switching jacks on the CV/audio inputs to pass input signals to the next LPGs if nothing is connected there, and/or to connect the LPGs in series as default. Lots of advantages are close, if the module is not a single LPG.  |
absolutely. well said. OTH it is always a kind of managing trade offs, isn't it? on one hand we are building a modular system, on the other hand we may want to partly implement prepatched connections. where is the border? _________________
cheers,
matthias
____________
Big Boss at fonitronik
Tech Buddy at Random*Source |
|
Back to top
|
|
 |
/mr

Joined: Aug 05, 2007 Posts: 223 Location: Elektron City, Sweden
Audio files: 1
|
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:50 am Post subject:
|
 |
|
fonik wrote: | absolutely. well said. OTH it is always a kind of managing trade offs, isn't it? on one hand we are building a modular system, on the other hand we may want to partly implement prepatched connections. where is the border? |
This kind of prepatching within a module doesn't take away any of the connections that is so typical for a modular system, so I don't see any need of defining such a border. Nothing is traded off, right?
To have design choices favouring banana jacks or some special kind of telejacks that don't have switching capabilities is one thing, but to avoid smart default connections just because they don't feel "as modular"... would in my opinion be... well, plainly unsmart.  |
|
Back to top
|
|
 |
fonik

Joined: Jun 07, 2006 Posts: 3950 Location: Germany
Audio files: 23
|
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:34 am Post subject:
|
 |
|
you are right. i am doing it on some of my modules, too.
what i was thinking of was: what is one module? should i have the mixer as a stand alone module or as a part of one module with prepatched connections? should i plan a whole system upfronnt, with one panel and the possibility to prepatch almost everything?
but okay, this is a whole other story/topic, and in vito i always come up with a finished module with more or less functions and prepatched connections in an intuitive way  _________________
cheers,
matthias
____________
Big Boss at fonitronik
Tech Buddy at Random*Source |
|
Back to top
|
|
 |
/mr

Joined: Aug 05, 2007 Posts: 223 Location: Elektron City, Sweden
Audio files: 1
|
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:17 am Post subject:
|
 |
|
fonik wrote: | but okay, this is a whole other story/topic |
You're right - and I'd love to dive into that discussion elsewhere. To kill some myths about the often alleged advantage of simpler & cleaner modules.  |
|
Back to top
|
|
 |
numbertalk

Joined: May 05, 2008 Posts: 992 Location: Austin, TX
Audio files: 5
|
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:18 am Post subject:
|
 |
|
Just reading through the documentation and I had actually been wondering about the inverted CV output. I was hoping someone might not mind elaborating a bit on that and could suggest a specific patch (especially also involving the non-inverted CV signal) as a starting point to realize some of the possibilities of having this output available. |
|
Back to top
|
|
 |
BananaPlug

Joined: Jul 04, 2007 Posts: 307 Location: Philly
Audio files: 5
|
|
Back to top
|
|
 |
neandrewthal

Joined: May 11, 2007 Posts: 672 Location: Canada
|
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:22 am Post subject:
|
 |
|
I'm going to pay homage to the orginal buchla version with a quad unit. I can fit all 4 of them in the same space as one "deluxe" version. If I really need to mix multiple signals I can use an external mixer, or just drive several units in parallel and take the summed output. I think I will link all the CV inputs with switching jacks, and also use them to subtract the individuals outputs from the summed out as /mr suggested. Much more flexible and space effective IMO. _________________ " I went through quite a few trannies til I found one I liked" - Wild Zebra |
|
Back to top
|
|
 |
e-grad
Joined: Sep 12, 2008 Posts: 142 Location: Berlin
|
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:43 am Post subject:
|
 |
|
BananaPlug wrote: | Sketch of dual layout for Frac Rack. |
The part of my 3PDT switch which sits behind the panel is huge. It possibly won't fit that close next to another switch as your sketch suggests.
Couldn't simply the jack's switching contact replace the switch which is going to link the two LPGs? |
|
Back to top
|
|
 |
BananaPlug

Joined: Jul 04, 2007 Posts: 307 Location: Philly
Audio files: 5
|
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:01 am Post subject:
|
 |
|
Quote: | The part of my 3PDT switch which sits behind the panel is huge... |
It's not hard to find ones about 1/2" square and some are smaller. Should fit between the two board mounted pots right over where it's wires will go into the PCB. Won't know for sure until I have the board of course.
Quote: | Couldn't simply the jack's switching contact replace the switch which is going to link the two LPGs? |
I'm using banana plugs. Also, if I do what I described it needs a DPDT. |
|
Back to top
|
|
 |
/mr

Joined: Aug 05, 2007 Posts: 223 Location: Elektron City, Sweden
Audio files: 1
|
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:06 pm Post subject:
|
 |
|
neandrewthal wrote: | I'm going to pay homage to the orginal buchla version with a quad unit. |
Speaking of homage and original - alas, how I miss Buchla's original 'diagonal style' panel design in the suggested dual panel above. I've seen nice diagonal designs for dual LPGs as well.
Not that it matters functionally, but it surely gives the original 292 a distinctive visual character, and when it comes to modulars I listen with my eyes as well.  |
|
Back to top
|
|
 |
urbanscallywag

Joined: Nov 30, 2007 Posts: 317 Location: sometimes
|
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject:
|
 |
|
Is it possible to use an LPG on CV in a Buchla? |
|
Back to top
|
|
 |
/mr

Joined: Aug 05, 2007 Posts: 223 Location: Elektron City, Sweden
Audio files: 1
|
|
Back to top
|
|
 |
urbanscallywag

Joined: Nov 30, 2007 Posts: 317 Location: sometimes
|
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:02 pm Post subject:
|
 |
|
Interesting, thanks.  |
|
Back to top
|
|
 |
BananaPlug

Joined: Jul 04, 2007 Posts: 307 Location: Philly
Audio files: 5
|
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:35 pm Post subject:
|
 |
|
Quote: | I miss Buchla's original 'diagonal style' panel design |
In case you're wondering what mr was talking about...
 |
|
Back to top
|
|
 |
/mr

Joined: Aug 05, 2007 Posts: 223 Location: Elektron City, Sweden
Audio files: 1
|
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject:
|
 |
|
...or the later 292C, with remote capabilities for the Buchla 300 system:
 |
|
Back to top
|
|
 |
Phillip Jeffries

Joined: Aug 23, 2008 Posts: 15 Location: Black Lodge
|
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject:
|
 |
|
 |
|
Back to top
|
|
 |
urbanscallywag

Joined: Nov 30, 2007 Posts: 317 Location: sometimes
|
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject:
|
 |
|
Nice.  |
|
Back to top
|
|
 |
|