| Would you prefer one PCB with 3 VCOs a la JH-5A, or 1 VCO per PCB with more features |
| One PCB with Oscillator Driver and 3 VCO cores (like JH-5A - cheap!) |
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60% |
[ 62 ] |
| 1 PCB = 1 VCO (with many waveforms and inputs) |
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39% |
[ 41 ] |
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| Total Votes : 103 |
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TekniK
Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1059
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 Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:47 pm Post subject:
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| numbertalk wrote: | Ok, my wife is back with the camera, but it's busted. So here's the best photo I could get with my phone.
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nice!,where did u get those knobs? |
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davebr
Joined: Jun 09, 2007
Posts: 198
Location: portland, or
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Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:13 pm Post subject:
Living VCOs
Subject description: Panel Design |
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I came up with one more 3U panel design. It's pretty tight but everything I want fits. Each VCO has Coarse, Fine, FM, and PWM controls. Two VCOs have detune and the other has a master Width. There are master controls for Out mix, Vibrato and Portamento. I'm not sure I'll go with this dense of a panel but it's another concept to consider.
http://modularsynthesis.com/jhaible/lvcos/jhlvcos.htm
Dave |
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numbertalk
Joined: May 05, 2008
Posts: 992
Location: Austin, TX
Audio files: 5
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TekniK
Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1059
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:05 pm Post subject:
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Hi,no ,those knobs  |
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dingebre
Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 270
Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:54 pm Post subject:
Euro Rack panel |
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I just ordered a pair of Euro Rack format Living VCO panels I put together from Schafer. They can be adapted to Frac (my "native" format), but it works well as a 42HP Euro module. The pot holes are for the 12 mm Alpha pots. 0.25 inch on the jacks and switches. 0.375 for the Precision multi-turn Vishay pots. The "trim" pots are for convenience in tuning and use a multi-turn trim, Vishay 3/4 inch, model 43, 100K - Mouser #594-43P101 Vishay #043P101 (I think any 3/4 inch trim pot will work) in a Vishay panel mount adapter Mouser #594-610; Vishay #006-1-0. The label above the FM and PWM on VCO 1 reflect that I am going to normal all the FM's and PWM's so it will be easier to use as an ensemble. I used these dials from Allied:
https://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?SKU=6640008&MPN=412&R=6640008&SEARCH=6640008&DESC=412
Enjoy and thanks again JH
David
| Description: |
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115.48 KB |
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433 Time(s) |
| This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge. |
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| Filename: |
Euro JH-5 VCO.fpd |
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_________________
David M. Ingebretsen, M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Enginering, Inc.
dingebre@3dphysics.net
http://www.xmission.com/~dingebre/Synthasystem.html |
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numbertalk
Joined: May 05, 2008
Posts: 992
Location: Austin, TX
Audio files: 5
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Funky40
Joined: Sep 24, 2005
Posts: 875
Location: Swiss
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 5
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| Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:50 am Post subject:
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| jhaible wrote: | | oscilloclast wrote: |
1. I designed the unit so that it will have a course and fine tune pot for each VCO. I have the course pot set up (100K) and it works fine. My question is how do I add the fine pot (I'm using a 10K). What I'm looking for is a lug to lug description if someone can provide that.
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http://www.jhaible.de/living_vcos/living_vcos_sch_1of4.pdf
Use another 100k linear pot, connect it between GND (cw end) and -15V (ccw end). Then take the wiper violtage and run it to Pin 2 of U1 via a resistor.
For 1 Oct range, 1.5MegOhm is good.
JH. |
I'll do mine too with finetune. ( I'm allready wiring)
I see all these connections ( 0V, -Vb, CV Bus ) are to find side by side on U1/U4/U7.
 Is there any Reason to NOT just solder a Header directly to U1 ( and U4, U7) |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:55 am Post subject:
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| Funky40 wrote: | | jhaible wrote: | | oscilloclast wrote: |
1. I designed the unit so that it will have a course and fine tune pot for each VCO. I have the course pot set up (100K) and it works fine. My question is how do I add the fine pot (I'm using a 10K). What I'm looking for is a lug to lug description if someone can provide that.
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http://www.jhaible.de/living_vcos/living_vcos_sch_1of4.pdf
Use another 100k linear pot, connect it between GND (cw end) and -15V (ccw end). Then take the wiper violtage and run it to Pin 2 of U1 via a resistor.
For 1 Oct range, 1.5MegOhm is good.
JH. |
I'll do mine too with finetune. ( I'm allready wiring)
I see all these connections ( 0V, -Vb, CV Bus ) are to find side by side on U1/U4/U7.
Is there any Reason to NOT just solder a Header directly to U1 ( and U4, U7) |
At least put the resistor close to the opamp pin (no long wire).
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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Funky40
Joined: Sep 24, 2005
Posts: 875
Location: Swiss
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 5
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| Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:56 pm Post subject:
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| jhaible wrote: | At least put the resistor close to the opamp pin (no long wire).
JH. |
ok
I guess i begin to understand the logic behind.
Thanks Jürgen ! |
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Funky40
Joined: Sep 24, 2005
Posts: 875
Location: Swiss
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 5
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:25 pm Post subject:
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Just listening to a JH "living" VCO thru a LPG and then thru the JH FS-1A. It's fun, haha.
Thank you Jürgen for another nice PCB/Module !
some Feedback/ Questions:
The High Trim amount seems to be to small on two VCO sections,
How can i increase the Range ? ( I i have 2K trimmers as original ). Taking 5K Trimmers ?
The finetune Pot is connected over a 2M Resistor. ( you mentioned a 1M5 previously to this Question ).
I would like to have it even finer, not shure how fine this reacts to changes.
should i take 2M2 or 3M.
thanks Jürgen, i enjoy the JH Modules very much  |
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TekniK
Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1059
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:08 pm Post subject:
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Thank u very much |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:18 am Post subject:
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| Funky40 wrote: | Just listening to a JH "living" VCO thru a LPG and then thru the JH FS-1A. It's fun, haha.
Thank you Jürgen for another nice PCB/Module !
some Feedback/ Questions:
The High Trim amount seems to be to small on two VCO sections,
How can i increase the Range ? ( I i have 2K trimmers as original ). Taking 5K Trimmers ?
The finetune Pot is connected over a 2M Resistor. ( you mentioned a 1M5 previously to this Question ).
I would like to have it even finer, not shure how fine this reacts to changes.
should i take 2M2 or 3M.
thanks Jürgen, i enjoy the JH Modules very much |
HF-Trimmer: Higher resistance increases the effect.
Fine Tune: Higher Resistance decreases the range. Range / 2 meanr R * 2.
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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studionebula
Joined: Sep 30, 2009
Posts: 9
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:39 pm Post subject:
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[I posted this previously in the wrong forum. My apologies!]
Greetings,
I'm nearly finished populating my Living VCOs PCB and am working on the panel design. I'm wondering whether it actually makes sense to provide a Detune knob for each VCO. Detuning is relative, after all, right? So doesn't it follow that if one oscillator is tuned to whatever pitch I'm trying to produce, the other two are detuned relative to it, and hence the first one doesn't need a Detune knob at all?
I'm just wondering what other people think about this. The counter-argument that I can think of is that if I pair the Living VCOs with other VCOs in my system, then I might want a Detune knob on each of them.
Thanks in advance for any comments and opinions.
--Adam |
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davebr
Joined: Jun 09, 2007
Posts: 198
Location: portland, or
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:55 pm Post subject:
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| studionebula wrote: | I'm nearly finished populating my Living VCOs PCB and am working on the panel design. I'm wondering whether it actually makes sense to provide a Detune knob for each VCO. Detuning is relative, after all, right? So doesn't it follow that if one oscillator is tuned to whatever pitch I'm trying to produce, the other two are detuned relative to it, and hence the first one doesn't need a Detune knob at all?
--Adam |
I used the same logic. My panel has only two detunes. I had too many knobs and something had to go to make it all fit.
http://modularsynthesis.com/jhaible/lvcos/jhlvcos.htm |
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TekniK
Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1059
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:09 am Post subject:
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| Dave ,on your site u write that the JH vco's pcb is a multi-layer pcb,u mean double side i guess? |
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studionebula
Joined: Sep 30, 2009
Posts: 9
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:48 am Post subject:
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Thanks, Dave. I've visited your site several times but I hadn't really digested your panel design. I've been planning to use a similar scheme of normalling the CV inputs.
Also, thanks a million for the Mouser-compatible BOM, which I've been relying upon heavily.
--Adam |
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davebr
Joined: Jun 09, 2007
Posts: 198
Location: portland, or
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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:55 pm Post subject:
Living VCOs
Subject description: PCB |
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| TekniK wrote: | | Dave ,on your site u write that the JH vco's pcb is a multi-layer pcb,u mean double side i guess? |
Yes. I'll update the page to be more clear. - Dave |
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davebr
Joined: Jun 09, 2007
Posts: 198
Location: portland, or
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Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:17 pm Post subject:
Living VCOs
Subject description: Oops! |
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I've received my front panel and began wiring up the controls. I decided to do VCO3 and check my wiring. I discovered a big oops! as I tried to wire up the rate and depth controls. The 0.100 MTA connectors in my parts list have insufficient clearance for the closely spaced headers. I have used the Tyco IDC (insulation displacement connectors) for all my JH boards and solder the wires in. These connectors have a wide top portion and are too large to fit the closely spaced headers in some areas of the board. I know that Jurgen specified a different connector that Tobias uses in his kits. I'll just change the middle connector to an in-line version that is skinny enough to fit in between the other two.
I think the CW for the Detune controls is on the left in the wiring diagram. With CW on the left, CW rotation increases frequency.
I was surprised to get some bleed-through of the LFO into VCO3 when not connected through the Portamento/LFO circuitry. [Update Oct 11, 2009 - I've finished the panel wiring and it is rock solid. There is no sign of any bleed-through. It probably was an unterminated Depth input.]
I've updated my site with photos and notes.
http://modularsynthesis.com/jhaible/lvcos/jhlvcos.htm
Dave
Last edited by davebr on Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:33 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:18 am Post subject:
Re: Living VCOs
Subject description: Oops! |
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| davebr wrote: | I've received my front panel and began wiring up the controls. I decided to do VCO3 and check my wiring. I discovered a big oops! as I tried to wire up the rate and depth controls. The 0.100 MTA connectors in my parts list have insufficient clearance for the closely spaced headers. I have used the Tyco IDC (insulation displacement connectors) for all my JH boards and solder the wires in. These connectors have a wide top portion and are too large to fit the closely spaced headers in some areas of the board. I know that Jurgen specified a different connector that Tobias uses in his kits. I'll just change the middle connector to an in-line version that is skinny enough to fit in between the other two.
I think the CW for the Detune controls is on the left. I've checked and double checked and know my control operates backwards.
What surprised me is I am getting bleed-through of the LFO into VCO3 when not connected through the Portamento/LFO circuitry. I didn't notice this before and have not verified where it is coming from. Has anyone else noticed this? I do have very long power cables for testing. I can't remember what I had for power cables when I checked the PCB before.
I've updated my site with notes.
http://modularsynthesis.com/jhaible/lvcos/jhlvcos.htm
Dave |
You have to short the Vibrato jack connector (VJK) on the PCB, if you're not using it. And with the jack, you need one that's normalized to GND.
The idea is that you can simply connect a potentiometer there (like a modulation wheel or pedal) without any active electonics, to control vibrato depth. This, of course, means that a high impedance (open connection) represents "Vibrato is engaged".
In practice, with a pedal connected, you put the pedal in minimum position, and set the Vibrato depth potentiometer on the front panel such that the Vibrato effect just disapperes. Then you can fade it in with the pedal. This should work with a wide range of ordinary volume pedals of various impedances - you just have to adjust the threshold on with the front panel knob. Same for mod wheel.
Without any of these, just short the VJK connector on the PCB (or use a jumper), and set the vibrato depth manually on the front panel.
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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studionebula
Joined: Sep 30, 2009
Posts: 9
Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:54 am Post subject:
Re: Living VCOs
Subject description: Oops! |
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| davebr wrote: | I've received my front panel and began wiring up the controls. I decided to do VCO3 and check my wiring. I discovered a big oops! as I tried to wire up the rate and depth controls. The 0.100 MTA connectors in my parts list have insufficient clearance for the closely spaced headers. I have used the Tyco IDC (insulation displacement connectors) for all my JH boards and solder the wires in. These connectors have a wide top portion and are too large to fit the closely spaced headers in some areas of the board. I know that Jurgen specified a different connector that Tobias uses in his kits. I'll just change the middle connector to an in-line version that is skinny enough to fit in between the other two.
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Thanks for the warning, Dave. I am going to wire my module this weekend; I'll substitute crimp-on connectors where necessary.
I also noticed that the connectors and headers aren't really ideal matches for each other. The headers have a vertical tab for a polarized connector, but the connectors you list have a locking ridge rather than polarizing tabs. They still mate okay, but polarized connectors might be a better choice.
--Adam |
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davebr
Joined: Jun 09, 2007
Posts: 198
Location: portland, or
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:03 pm Post subject:
Re: Living VCOs
Subject description: Oops! |
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I've got the PCB all wired up! I did confirm Detune works opposite from what I would have thought. CW is on the left on the wiring diagram if you want the pitch to rise when you turn Detune CW.
I didn't hear any LFO bleed-thru. I didn't spend a lot of time on it but changed my power wiring so all three VCOs were powered. [Update Oct 11, 2009 - I went through my module today in detail and it is rock solid. There is no sign of any bleed-through. It probably was an unterminated Depth input.]
New photos on the web site including the partially built front panel. It does look nice!
Dave |
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davebr
Joined: Jun 09, 2007
Posts: 198
Location: portland, or
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Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:43 pm Post subject:
Re: Living VCOs
Subject description: Oops! |
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I spent some time today with an oscilloscope and checked out my LVCO module. The coarse and fine controls work great. I verified the Width, PWM, Portamento, and LFO operation. This module is rock solid. I'm not sure what the issue was before but there is absolutely no sight of LFO bleed-thru at all.
I've yet to wire up my enhancement PCB. I made the bracket for it so I just need to build the PCB and wire the panel controls.
I spent some time with the Detune controls and they are very nice! I ended up putting a short video of their operation on my web site. http://modularsynthesis.com/jhaible/lvcos/jhlvcos.htm
Dave |
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studionebula
Joined: Sep 30, 2009
Posts: 9
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:24 pm Post subject:
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Nice video! I'm curious whether you've noticed any qualitative difference in how these VCOs sound in comparison to the MOTM VCOs.
I just submitted my panel order to FPE so I'll be waiting for a couple of weeks before I can make further progress on my module. I have verified that all three oscillators oscillate, however.
--Adam |
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davebr
Joined: Jun 09, 2007
Posts: 198
Location: portland, or
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Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:42 pm Post subject:
Living VCOs
Subject description: Complete! |
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| studionebula wrote: | Nice video! I'm curious whether you've noticed any qualitative difference in how these VCOs sound in comparison to the MOTM VCOs.
--Adam |
I haven't yet done any comparisons. I just tonight finished wiring up the front panel - well, almost finished as I am one jack short! I probably won't do much until my jack order arrives and I can mount the module in the cabinet.
My Oct and Tune connectors are backwards from the schematics. I mounted them according to the image on the reference designator. I don't know what the silk screen shows as it is now hidden. I have an earlier version of the layout that shows them rotated 180 degrees. I would mount them so they match the schematics which would be with the polarization tabs towards the power connectors (same as the nearby Porta and CVS connectors).
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numbertalk
Joined: May 05, 2008
Posts: 992
Location: Austin, TX
Audio files: 5
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Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:26 pm Post subject:
Re: Living VCOs
Subject description: Oops! |
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| davebr wrote: | | I think the CW for the Detune controls is on the left in the wiring diagram. With CW on the left, CW rotation increases frequency. |
Ah, I hadn't noticed this on mine since it this control covers such a small range, but you're right - I didn't catch this and mine are wired up backwards. |
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