NMG2 Open Source Editor

blue hell · Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:47 pm Post subject:

I've split off a bunch of posts from here to the new G2 extended patches section : http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-54650.html

veta · Joined: Feb 19, 2007 Posts: 39 Location: www

does anyone have any idea if this open source editor will run on a mac using the application 'WinOnX' ?

more info here: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/winonx/id421346233?ls=1&mt=12

i really want to use this editor but don't want to do a full windows purchase / install.

drapdap · Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:53 am Post subject:

Hey Bruno!

any news? we love news! Very Happy

did you consider making a different extension name for the patchfiles with hidden modules?

brunov · Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:21 am Post subject:

Hey Drapdap!

Yes, well I'm working on an update, but nothing as spectacular as new modules or something like that. Mostly user-interface stuff.

I'm working on these things:

Like Jan suggested, the editor will put x behind the file extension when it detects that one of the extended modules is used, so you get pch2x and prf2x.

And I thought it would be nice if you could use the g2ools from within the editor, so I made a little shell around it, so you can start it from the menu. Maybe in future this could be integrated a bit more.

And then recently I bought a couple of midi-controllers, a Novation launchpad and a BCR200. The BCR2000 I bought because I read here on the forum that it may be a good one to use in combination with the g2 engine. The nice thing about it is these rotaty controls with leds that look a lot like the G2 keys controls. The downside is that the cc mapping is not fixed like the controls on a g2 keys. The controls of the g2 keys are more or less fixed to the parameter pages.

So what I would like to do is to make ik possible in the editor to map cc's from a midi-controller to the knobs on the parameter pages of the editor, so it behaves something like the controls on a g2 keys. I'll put a picture up tonight so see what I mean.

Of course another downside is that it doesn't have displays to show which parameter you're editting.

With the launchpad I had this idea, maybe somtehing for a distant future: wouldn't it be nice to use a controller like the launchpad in combination with a path mutator? I thought of this because the patch mutator in the clavia editor also has some sort of a grid that stores the different mutations. Of course we'll have to figure out how to make a patch mutator first...

brunov · Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:43 pm Post subject:

Here is a picture of what I'm working on, it's something for engine owners I guess.

On the application settings I made a Tab "Ctrl Midi", there you can specify your midi-controllers. It works like in ableton, after you specified the midi devices, you can turn a knob on the device and with a right click of the mouse you can connect it to a control on the parameter pages form, so that way you can create a midi mapping and the mapping will be saved in the ini-file.

The arrows show how I made my mapping of the bcr2000 at the moment: the top row knobs correspond with the 8 knobs on the parameter pages, then the row of buttons below correspond with the 8 buttons of the parameter pages.

The first 5 buttons on the second row select the parameter page, and the last 3 select the column.

And with the push function of the top row knobs you select a variation.

And finally the four buttons right below on the bcr2000 select the function: parameters, global parameters, morphs or patch parameters.

Don't know yet what to do with the 24 knobs below.

The nice thing about the bcr2000 is the feedback function, so if you specify the bcr2000 in the Ctrl midi output list, the editor will send midi back to the bcr2000, so if you switch for example to another variation, the leds around the knobs and on the buttons will show the new values.

Pity there are no displays to show the parameters your editting.

So not quite like a g2 keys, but maybe getting close...

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Antimon · Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:59 pm Post subject:

BCR mapping onto the parameter page!! Straight from the top of my wish list! You, sir, are a hero and a genius!

thumleft

Estarriol · Joined: Aug 09, 2011 Posts: 41 Location: Moscow

The main problem I've experienced while having G2engine and BCR2000 is a lack of feedback -- G2 does not send any data to BCR encoders, so the leds dont jump as good as G2keyb does.

Roland Kuit · Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:23 am Post subject:

Bruno, you are fantastic! Thank you!
I use BCR's for my Engines.

brunov · Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:18 pm Post subject:

Thanks guys! Very Happy

I'm really glad to hear there's a demand for this functionality.

I've still a lot more testing/programming to do, so it will take a couple of weeks before my update is ready.

jksuperstar · Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:12 pm Post subject:

Hi Bruno,

How much effort is required to get this editor running on Linux at this point? (I also have to think about the Clavia driver, but I had that running via WINE at some point a long time ago, it was the editor which graphically wasn't very happy).

My thought is to use a Raspberry Pi linux board embedded in my Nord G2, and that way the keyboard is fully self-sufficient, no external computer *required*. The Raspberry Pi computers are very small, and sell for about $35 US, which includes a USB port and HDMI output. It also has a network port, so instead of a monitor, VNC or other remote controlling system could be used to control the editor over the network.

http://www.raspberrypi.org/

Later on, things like CopperLan could be added, which is a network based replacement for MIDI. It's quite powerful, and looking to be a wonderful system that takes the strengths of Open Sound Control and MIDI, and puts it in a IP-free self aware network environment.

https://www.facebook.com/CopperLan

The Raspberry Pi is based on a 700MHz system with 256MB of memory. I don't know if these are limits at this point, I imagine not. the boards have a GPU on them as well, and that is being developed currently, so graphics should be largely off loaded from the main processor.

Just an idea!

brunov · Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:34 pm Post subject:

That's an interesting plan! At the moment though the editor only works under windows.

I had a try to get it working under Linux some time ago, and basically it worked, only I had some trouble with what I think are bugs of the Delphi compiler under Linux (FPC), but that could also be my inexperience with Linux/FPC.

So I decided it would be better to first finish the windows version, with most of the functionality of the original editor and then maybe later, to try to make a linux/osx version.

I'm not experienced at all with Linux/osx programming, so for me it's a steep learning curve. But I would like to explain a bit what i've code so far, maybe to get some ideas going Smile

What I've learned so far is that in cross-platform programming the difficult parts are in the peripherals. So for the editor these are the usb connection, the midi connection and the graphical ui.

I've spend a lot of time structuring the code so that the peripheral dependencies are in the top layers of the code, now I have these layers:

g2_file : base classes (module, cable, parameter, patch, slot, performance and so on)
g2_mess : adds messages definitions (create module, create cable and so on)
g2_usb : adds usb functionality
g2_midi : adds midi functionality
g2_graph : adds graphical ui functionality

g2_file and g2_mess should compile with FPC under linux/windows/mac with some minor modifications.

Then g2_usb, I know for a fact that it works under linux/windows, Osx should be possible also according to the Lib-usb specs.

g2_midi. Don't know yet. But the midi functionality is not really essential for the function of the editor.

g2_graph : That's the difficult one! If you look at the editor, it doesn't look like a very graphical intensive application, but because the modules/knobs are so small, to make it all a bit visually appealing, the graphics have to be anti-aliased, wich means, "make it look less build out of blocks". So more complex code is needed to scale the colors, which means more cpu. That in combination with the blinking leds: when a led is partially obscured by a cable, that part of the cable has to be redrawn every time the leds blinks.

I've worked out the graphics for windows, but for linux a ran into trouble. I have to see how things work out with osx.

So that's basically the situation now. Maybe this winter I get some spare time to work on this.

An alternative option to building a complete application myself is to compile the first 3 layers into a library. And someone with more linux/osx experience can build an UI in another language and use the library to communicate with the the g2.

jksuperstar · Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:19 am Post subject:

Hmmm, maybe an alternative to knobs would be more useful? Especially if a touch interface ever became available in the future.

Some things that come to mind to replace a knob might be data bars
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Or sliders. I'll give it more thought.

Thanks for considering the idea!

brunov · Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:39 am Post subject:

Do you intend to use it for making patches? the difficulty with the graphics is mainly because of the cables and all the user interface controls to make a patch.

Because knobs and so on can also be made out of bitmaps, as on most Vst's. That's much faster to render on the screen.

I've not used bitmaps yet, because I was thinking that it might be useful one day have a zoom function, if it has to run on a tabled for example, the vector graphics are more easy to scale.

I was planning this winter to look again if I can the editor running in linux/osx. I'll let you know how things progress.

For the next windows version, I thought I'd also make a patch manager. Down below is a screen shot.

On top are 5 slot's: performance and slot A to D.

Below are the banks of the G2. 8 performance banks and 32 patch banks. You can drag/drop patches from the banks to the slots or from the slots to the banks.

The red rectangle contains the slot settings, with the keyboard you can set a key range for the selected slot or you can play some notes to hear the patch.

Also some colors depending on the category, the legend is on the bottom.

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grimley · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:12 pm Post subject:

Very impressed with the progress you have made. I'm considering buying a cheap PC just to use your software (all Mac here at the moment). Fantastic work.

Roland Kuit · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:30 pm Post subject:

Great Brunov! That tablet idea sound appealing.

jksuperstar · Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:49 am Post subject:

Ok, maybe a simple fanless pico-itx or nano-itx board is a better option then for now!

http://www.e-itx.com/epia-pico-itx.html

brunov · Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:40 am Post subject:

Didnt even know these things existed Shocked

I think the editor will run on it if it's windows of course, you need an usb an a lan port and some kind of storage system, maybe you kan even boot in from an usb stick. I'm not really an expert on hardware so I'm really not the person to give advice on it.

The performance of the editor can be tuned if it turns out that it runs to slow, for example resrticting the number of screen updates from led's blinking by a parameter. So I don't think that would be a show stopper, just let me know if you run into a problem!

grimley · Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:09 pm Post subject:

ZeeByeZon · Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:50 am Post subject:

You will still need a screen, a keyboard and a mouse...
The screen needs a power cord too Sad

brunov · Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:22 am Post subject:

Something like this should have a touch screen, but then some kind of windows tablet would become an option too

jksuperstar · Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:51 am Post subject:

brunov · Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:08 am Post subject:

I've made a new version of the editor (v0.25). The main changes are the following:

- implemented a couple of new messages (voice count, master clock, memory bank functions)
- all the module displays should display values in the correct format
- made a patch manager function
- made a patch browser and parser function
- made it possible to control editor functions with midi
- restructured the code repository
- wrote a help file.

The help file is included in de zip, but can also be read online here:
http://www.bverhue.nl/G2EditorHelp/NMG2_Open_source_editor_help.html

Regards
Bruno

fairplay · Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:24 am Post subject:

xav · Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:15 am Post subject:

Hello everybody,

Does anybody tried and succeeded in installing this editor in Parallels or Wine?
Thank you Brunov, nice work.

grimley · Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:45 pm Post subject:

Excellent work on the help document. Lots of great features in there I wasn't aware of.