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Softpot Ribbon Controller
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I've ben waiting SO long for this! This will be the push off the cliff I need to start my Klee.


Well, with the winter around the corner, I guess you will be a busy guy !! Very Happy Glad your excited also about the ribbon controller ....

Cool

Bill
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yep!

Actually, un-beknowest to Bill, I went rogue and ordered a HotPot Laughing

So, I'll be able to give the skinny on how the HotPot vs SoftPot works. The 500mm HotPot is a bit more expensive than the SoftPot. The surface feel looks to be the main draw, but the required pressure may or may not detract from it. On the SparkFun site, there was one comment about the HotPot, and it goes like this:

Quote:
I agree that the surface of the sensor feels good for finger use. *However*, I have found that the amount of pressure needed to make a connection between the resistive layer and the conductor is well more than I had hoped; I have to press far too hard for fast play on the sensor. So, if you are looking for low physical actuation force (for play on the sensor with a light touch), you might want to try the normal Softpot line. Though I haven't tested them, the actuation force listed in the spec sheet is lower.


Now, this poster hasn't ever tried the SoftPot, so that may mean relatively nothing. I know, at least with the Appendage, it doesn't take much of a touch to get it going using the SoftPot. I do find myself applying more pressure to slide just so I can get a smooth slide, because of the way the surface feels, so there may be a nice trade-off there. I'll know more when the HP arrives.

You guys don't know what kind of bullet I'm taking here....the wife so far is unaware of it. Must think of trade-off....."Hmm, honey, isn't about time you got a new stove?" Laughing

No, that would just be a tip-off. Shocked

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StephenGiles



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Scott Stites wrote:
Yep!

Actually, un-beknowest to Bill, I went rogue and ordered a HotPot Laughing

So, I'll be able to give the skinny on how the HotPot vs SoftPot works. The 500mm HotPot is a bit more expensive than the SoftPot. The surface feel looks to be the main draw, but the required pressure may or may not detract from it. On the SparkFun site, there was one comment about the HotPot, and it goes like this:

Quote:
I agree that the surface of the sensor feels good for finger use. *However*, I have found that the amount of pressure needed to make a connection between the resistive layer and the conductor is well more than I had hoped; I have to press far too hard for fast play on the sensor. So, if you are looking for low physical actuation force (for play on the sensor with a light touch), you might want to try the normal Softpot line. Though I haven't tested them, the actuation force listed in the spec sheet is lower.


Now, this poster hasn't ever tried the SoftPot, so that may mean relatively nothing. I know, at least with the Appendage, it doesn't take much of a touch to get it going using the SoftPot. I do find myself applying more pressure to slide just so I can get a smooth slide, because of the way the surface feels, so there may be a nice trade-off there. I'll know more when the HP arrives.

You guys don't know what kind of bullet I'm taking here....the wife so far is unaware of it. Must think of trade-off....."Hmm, honey, isn't about time you got a new stove?" Laughing

No, that would just be a tip-off. Shocked


A trip to the dress shop could be in order!
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Shoes!!
I've found the only way to bamboozal a woman is with shoes!!
Take her down the shoe shop, and tell her she should pick two pairs!
Then go and get a haircut, and mumble something about "I think I should get a treat too."
Trust me, I'm a doctor!! Laughing

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adambee7



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

and handbags Very Happy Very Happy
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softfin



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm sorry I haven't managed to keep on track about this Ribbon controller project due to other projects etc.
Anyway, I'm most definately interested in buying a parts kit, pcbs and everything related to this as such a controller would be most welcome here!! Very Happy
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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

best of luck with the wife. unfortunately you really don't
stand a chance as they can smell a new purchase
a mile away Rolling Eyes
I gave up subterfuge long ago
now i just tell mine as soon as i have hit the confirm button
and get the inevitable argument over and done with,
of course then you do end up having to promise to buy her
something really expensive next month. which she will
most likely take care of herself, not tell you, and then give you grief over forgetting it Twisted Evil . In any case makes for a interesting game, 27 years and still Iam playing it'. Laughing
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I was wrong. You guys do know what kind of bullet I took. Laughing
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spazmatron



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

+1 on the complete kit.

I've been watching this for about 10 months or so. I'm super exited to see it's finally going to happen. I do have a few questions. I stumbled across the appendage after reading about the stribe/midibox that TK put together on the midibox forum. Which leads me to my first question:

My first thought was to use the midibox platform to midify the appendage, but since then, statemachine has created his own midi solution. I'm no expert, so I'm wondering, was midibox not suitable in this case, or were you (statemachine) just not familiar with it?

On the same midi subject, I'm wondering how do you get a midi synth, hard or soft, to smoothly move up and down notes without stepping? I'm sure it depends on the synth, but generally speaking, I'm not sure how to do it. I was thinking perhaps set the pitch bend range to several octaves, but that seems more like a work around than the actual right way to do it.

Lastly: There was mention of a "simplified" setup without some of the extras. Will that be just by leaving some parts off the board, or is that going to be a whole different board? I was considering 2 to 4 ribbons for a polyphonic setup for use with midi, in which case I think simple would be better. any ideas?

Thanks for such an awesome project!

Shane
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh, sorry Spazmatron, I didn't see this post. A belated welcome to you.

Bill would be more suited to answer your midification questions.

I gave the HotPot a trial run tonight. It certainly works with the Appendage, and the feel is definitely better - it doesn't grip the skin nearly as much. It does appear to take slightly more pressure; it's hard to tell with it not anchored and "floating" about. Even then, though, it didn't seem too awful bad. I'll know more when I grow some balls and decide to adhere it to a surface.

You can see my tenuous alligator-to-1/4 inch TRS connection; even with that crap connection, it worked just fine.


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mark_olson



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Scott Stites wrote:
feel is definitely better - it doesn't grip the skin nearly as much.


Thanks for this information, Scott. I have to say, in your appendage videos I didn't see any evidence of struggling with grippiness so if the hotpot is even less so it seems like it must be pretty easy to manipulate.

If you do get around to sticking it to something it would be interesting to know the results of further evaluation.

Mark
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
My first thought was to use the midibox platform to midify the appendage, but since then, state machine has created his own midi solution. I'm no expert, so I'm wondering, was midibox not suitable in this case, or were you (statemachine) just not familiar with it?


While MIDIBOX is a powerful platform, I felt I did not need an O/S, MIOS, to perform the duties that was facilitated by it. I have seen some great projects made with this platform. Truth is, I am just digitizing up to 10 inputs and sending MIDI CC's and NOTE ON/OFF messages and thus the software is really not that complicated. I ended up using the Arduino platform, out of curiosity, and coded the processor in "C". At the end of the day, all I need is an 8 bit, 28 pin, MCU ... the Atmega168 , some analog switches, optocoupler, 6 operational amplifiers, and a hand full of passives. I have attached a block diagram of the Appendage "MIDIFIER". This circuit will end up being integrated onto one PC board and attachable to the Appendage via it's 20 pin AUXILIARY expansion connector. I hope that others will develop their own expansion boards for the Appendage.

Quote:
On the same midi subject, I'm wondering how do you get a midi synth, hard or soft, to smoothly move up and down notes without stepping? I'm sure it depends on the synth, but generally speaking, I'm not sure how to do it. I was thinking perhaps set the pitch bend range to several octaves, but that seems more like a work around than the actual right way to do it.


One word my friend, portamento (or GLIDE) .... ok that's 2 words Wink

Quote:
Lastly: There was mention of a "simplified" setup without some of the extras. Will that be just by leaving some parts off the board, or is that going to be a whole different board? I was considering 2 to 4 ribbons for a polyphonic setup for use with midi, in which case I think simple would be better. any ideas?


There was talk of an "Appendage Jr." which was a simplified version with a subset of the major functions of the full blown Appendage. I know Scott had drawn up a schematic but did not fully develop it (???) .. BUT, I will have to let Scott answer this question more thoroughly.

Seems like Scott likes the Hotpot and that's encouraging ...

Thanks ...
Bill


ANALOG2MIDI ADAPTER.pdf
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adambee7



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The hotpot looks much better. As i live player my sweat gets into things before i even play anything and the hotpot looks much more robust. Very Happy Very Happy
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It looks as though the laminate is different that encases the "pot" itself. Probably stiffer than the soft-pot and thus is why it takes a bit more pressure to activate the thing. I am just guessing at this point. Wink

Scott, does the Hot Pot feel thicker to you? It also looks wider so that more adhesive contact a surface.

Bill
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

State Machine wrote:
Just to let folks know. Scott and I are doing one last FINAL PRODUCTION build using the PC board latest artwork. A board has been shipped to Scott. This will allow us to:

1) Verify the Build Documentation
2) Verify the Calibration Procedure
3) verify the production board will be absolutely perfect

The teams step by step approach has been successful on several projects such as the Klee Sequencer and the MPS designs.

When the Boards and kits are announced, they will be announced here and brought to another link within this forum for all sales.

Right now it looks like the pricing shall be:

Printed Circuit Boards (2 Layer, Silkscreened, green Soldermask) ---- $40.00
FULL Parts Kit with 500 mm Softpot & Insulated Jacks ---- $163.00
(There are MANY parts .... including 23 IC's)
Full Parts Kit minus the Softpot & Insulated jacks ---- $129.00

NOTE: These are ALL brand new parts, all packaged for easy identification.
Please don't order just yet until the announcement is made.

Thanks for everyones patience.

Bill

some comments regarding partkits:
I personally prefer to have those Partkits without Resistors.

1. it is much easier for me to build with my Resistors.
I'm not organised well. Lots of values i have just in labeled bags. But thats still the faster build for me.
2. Packing Resistors is REALLY work, just making the partkits unneccessary more expensive.
3. Every DIY geek here will have most resistors or is for shure able to get them with cheap shipping from his country.
Folks building this kind of stuff must have anyway a E12 sortiment or better E24.
But regardless i'm shure some folks will prefer full kits.


A) I mean it would be a good Idea to offer the kits also without the resistors. Or just add really uncommon Values
B) It would be nice to get the Boards also with teh ribbonthingy even if one take no partkits.
For us europeans it is expensive to get parts from the US.
Usually you pay 30$ shipping regardless how small the order is.
mouser ships for free ( to switzerland) if over 100$............ Shocked , but do they have the ribbonthingy ?


thanks Bill for offering Partkits
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
does the Hot Pot feel thicker to you?


It feels that way, but my doctor says just to get some frozen peas and....

Oh, you mean the ribbon!

It's a bit stiffer and thicker and feels "vinyley" if that means anything to you. Laughing

The assembly is actually the same width as the SP; same goes for the conductive strip (the playing area); I think the coloring makes it look wider in the pics.

Cheerios,
Scott

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Coriolis



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I second what Funky40 said about the resistors.
I have tons of those, or can get them cheap from futurlec when I order stuff for other projects anyway. So if omitting them could bring the price down on kits... Very Happy

C

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State Machine
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I second what Funky40 said about the resistors.
I have tons of those, or can get them cheap from futurlec when I order stuff for other projects anyway. So if omitting them could bring the price down on kits... Very Happy


Well, it's my goal to please. I shall also offer up kits without resistors then. That will reduce the price of the kit. I also plan to drop the base price a bit of the full kit of parts since these are harder economic times for all of us.

I will take orders also for a combination board/softpot as well. So, many choices abound guys !!!

Thanks for the suggestions guys ......... Wink

Bill
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
It feels that way, but my doctor says just to get some frozen peas and....


Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked
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johans121



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

State Machine wrote:
I will take orders...


any idea when that will happen Wink

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State Machine
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
any idea when that will happen


Scott and I are now going over some of the finished docs. The schematics & panel drawings are just about all done. The final calibration procedure is being written now. WE also decided to do another final production build. Probably early fall I shall start taking pre-orders. Scott will answer more specifically on some of the tasks that need completion.

I did add the "MIX" voltage to the PCB on the expansion connector. That now completes all the critical signals for this expansion:

GATE
TRIGGER
SLIDE CV
INIT CV
BEND CV
MIX CV
+15/-15V
GND


AND A FEW OTHERS .......... Wink

The CV2MIDI board will follow during the winter after the sales start of the Appendage boards and parts kits.

Thanks again for your patience.
Bill
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adambee7



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dribble,dribble...................
Its all getting too much. I'm starting to have dreams of playing on stage with a laser coming out of the thing. Very Happy
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fonik



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Thanks again for your patience.

thank YOU ALL for doing all this. and i still have more than enough project on the pile...

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State Machine
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
dribble,dribble...................
Its all getting too much. I'm starting to have dreams of playing on stage with a laser coming out of the thing


Wow, where can I buy tickets Wink Scott, is it too late to incorporate a laser into the controller? Laughing

Bill
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TekniK



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

State Machine wrote:

Well, it's my goal to please. I shall also offer up kits without resistors then. That will reduce the price of the kit. I also plan to drop the base price a bit of the full kit of parts since these are harder economic times for all of us.

I will take orders also for a combination board/softpot as well. So, many choices abound guys !!!

Thanks for the suggestions guys ......... Wink

Bill


Great!
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