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3phase
Joined: Jul 27, 2004
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 Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:21 am Post subject:
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a conversion software that reads the old Emulator 2 lib and a vintage sample mode that brings me the sound of the old sample flagship back on stage... i can have tons of clean and granular samples with my laptop..with latencys well below 3 ms... thats not the point...but nothing replaces my old emulator 2 sofar...
The thing with this old samplers is that one oktave lower is half samplerate..that variable samplerate gives the charakter..
'I think its the same with fairlight and synclavier
Last edited by 3phase on Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:07 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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seraph
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mosc
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject:
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Just noticed this on the Behringer site: http://www.behringer.com/DDX3216/index.cfm?lang=ENG
If I was Clavia, or anyone making hardware to sell in a competitive market, I would immediately visit the guys a Behringer and figure out how they do this. This mixer is apparently in the $1200 US price range. When you consider what you get, it's amazing. If Behringer would sell a G2X, it would cost 50%.
BTW, this mixer comes with a bunch of nice rotary encoders and a motorized faders.
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dorremifasol
Joined: Sep 28, 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 12:49 pm Post subject:
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Behringer has a little secret, they design in Germany (I think) but they build the units in China, which is way cheaper than building in Europe, Japan or USA for example.
Clavia design and build all their machines in Sweden, which is much more expensive.
I don't think that Clavia will ever build their machines in China... and I also hope so.
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dasz
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:35 pm Post subject:
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/Dasz |
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:52 pm Post subject:
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| mosc wrote: |
If I was Clavia, or anyone making hardware to sell in a competitive market, I would immediately visit the guys a Behringer and figure out how they do this. This mixer is apparently in the $1200 US price range. When you consider what you get, it's amazing. If Behringer would sell a G2X, it would cost 50%.
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| dorremifasol wrote: | Behringer has a little secret, they design in Germany (I think) but they build the units in China, which is way cheaper than building in Europe, Japan or USA for example.
Clavia design and build all their machines in Sweden, which is much more expensive.
I don't think that Clavia will ever build their machines in China... and I also hope so. |
Almost exactly what I was about to chime in with.
Behringer use a system called the ISO9001 (/2) standard (there is an equivalent British Standard equivalent too). Behinger can do this because they sell rather a lot more items than Clavia do. But building using the iso system in a country like China does mean higher productivity and lower overheads- and Chinese industry standards aren't as bad as they used to be. (This Macbook is made in China for eg).
If Clavia were to move into making PA equipment, outboard etc, then they could have their keyboards built in China too, but I doubt that this will happen. Clavia were one of the first companies to release a VA and because of this (with a number of dynamite other high quality and successful products following too) they are probably happy enough where they are.
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jksuperstar
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:48 pm Post subject:
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I went to the music store the other day to buy one, and they didn't have any, and told me no more would be ordered, since the manufacturer has end-of-life'd the product (well, that's what the computer told him!). He was happy to find what was in near by stores, but I declined, thinking that behringer probably has something new up it's sleeves (it's not like those things aren't selling, I see them everywhere, so I don't think they'd cancel them, I just figured they had some RoHS problems like clavia did). This was at guitar center, which is a big retailer here in the states, especially of lower cost items like the behringer products. |
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G2DREAM
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:36 pm Post subject:
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| G2DREAM wrote: | It is on their site now...
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Its been up there for a couple of days already 
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IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
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G2DREAM
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:41 pm Post subject:
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And I thought that my internet connection speed was fast enough... 
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elektro80
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:44 pm Post subject:
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Since Behringer cut the price by 50% nearly 2 years ago.. or more.. this one has been on their EOL list ... but still they have been dumping new batches onto the market anyway. 
I have commented on this mixer in some other thread here somewhere. It is actually quite good all things considered, but I honestly don´t think it is suitable as a tracking/recording console. It works great for monitoring stuff and it is great for stage use. The price is very low, the quality is absolutely OK, soundwise it is pretty OK and if you understand what it does and why, then.. get one NOW! ( But this is not a product for eveyone who needs a mixer. Read the tech specs and manual very carefully and consider if it does what you want it to do in a way that makes sense. )
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Last edited by elektro80 on Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Wout Blommers
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:44 pm Post subject:
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| G2dream wrote: | | And I thought that my internet connection speed was fast enough... |
Yes it is and this is a recent (today) info update.
Jason did a quick job, knowing he returned from Frankfurt just the other day and is very tired...
Wout |
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blue hell
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:52 pm Post subject:
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| Wout Blommers wrote: | | and is very tired... |
He should be, but he is still young I guess 
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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Wout Blommers
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:56 pm Post subject:
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Some nice things in Jasons text...
The smiley was placed in Oscillator 1, where the NW has just noise and no wave tables; that's Oscillator 2 
He introduces the NW as the new NL3...
Important to know development isn't ready yet.
Clavia also released the flyer in pdf format.
Wout |
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blue hell
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:22 pm Post subject:
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| Wout Blommers wrote: | | Clavia also released the flyer in pdf format. |
Only half of it it seems ?
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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NoiseLab
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject:
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As far as I see the NordWave is just an rip-off of the PPG Wave/Waveterm & Waldorf Wave. Because on those you can do re-synthesis on samples and use them as oscillators. And to call it the NordWave is really sad!!!
If this is not the case? I like to know what's the difference on the NordWave concept? |
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Fozzie
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:36 pm Post subject:
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| NoiseLab wrote: | As far as I see the NordWave is just an rip-off of the PPG Wave/Waveterm & Waldorf Wave. Because on those you can do re-synthesis on samples and use them as oscillators. And to call it the NordWave is really sad!!!
If this is not the case? I like to know what's the difference on the NordWave concept? |
I think you're a little quick to judge. AFAIK, the synths you mention use wavetable synthesis but cannot use samples (other than 1 cycle wavetable-samples), as the nord wave apparently can. And in addition, making use of an existing synthesis technique doesn't necessarily mean a rip-off imho. Unless you mean the name 'wave', that could be argued to be not-so-original
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davep
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:49 pm Post subject:
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| mosc wrote: | Just noticed this on the Behringer site: http://www.behringer.com/DDX3216/index.cfm?lang=ENG
If I was Clavia, or anyone making hardware to sell in a competitive market, I would immediately visit the guys a Behringer and figure out how they do this.
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Unfortunately, Behringer is the prime example of exactly how a company should NOT keep prices low. They do this two ways:
1. Instead of spending money on R&D like other companies, they blatantly steal designs form other manufacturers. This is not slander, it has been proven in court case after court case. In one case, it was proven because a FLAW in the original manufacturer's circuit board showed up in the Behringer copy. It was identical.
2. Instead of submitting their new products to regulatory test labs to assure compliance to important RF emissions and immunity standards and electrical safety standards, Behringer simply skips these crucial steps in the process and releases their products to the public without bothering to find out if they comply with these important standards or not. In fact, they were recently fined one million dollars by the FCC for repeatedly doing this over a period of several years with more than fifty products:
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-06-13A1.pdf
As someone who works in the pro audio industry and knows how much hard work goes into designing and releasing a new product, I think folks should be aware of unethical business practices like this. Personally, I choose to pay a bit more and support legitimate companies.
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dasz
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:45 pm Post subject:
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Yeah, it is a sad sign of the times ...
/Dasz |
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Afro88
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:07 pm Post subject:
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| Well said Dave. Add that Behringer are synonymous with crap quality gear. Occasionally they do it right (BCR/BCF), but more often than not it's cheap no frills crap that can break easily, come broken drivers/software that never get fixed (BCD) or noisy low grade connections. I sincerely hope Clavia DON'T take a look at how Behringer do things! |
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3phase
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:00 am Post subject:
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actually clavia should place the smiley on the final product...
I cant think of a better symbol for the fun part of the oscilator... |
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dorremifasol
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:15 am Post subject:
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Doh! I was about to buy a second hand v-verb pro REV2496 from Behringer to complement my 01X...
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Fozzie
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:51 am Post subject:
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No! Please don't turn this thread in a Behringer bashing/defending thread . IMHO that is as useful a topic as a mac / win flamewar 
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:56 am Post subject:
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| Fozzie wrote: | | No! Please don't turn this thread in a Behringer bashing/defending thread . IMHO that is as useful a topic as a mac / win flamewar |
Well exactly.
FWIW, If we took away Behringer then we wouldn't be providing for all those on a strict budget. Personally I'd much prefer a Mackie, but my 602 has served its purpose very well over the years and is still going strong.
Why don't budget mixers include sweep eq's any more?
(Sorry for the OT)
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ALLES TURISTEN UND NONTEKNISCHEN LOOKENPEEPERS!
DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE IST NICHT FÜR DER GEFINGERPOKEN UND MITTENGRABEN! ODERWISE IST EASY TO SCHNAPPEN DER SPRINGENWERK, BLOWENFUSEN UND POPPENCORKEN MIT SPITZENSPARKSEN.
IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
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Rob
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:47 am Post subject:
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I got one of these mixers and got it new for less than 800 euro. But I got one from the series that have a little problem on the analog input board (the analog signal already clips before the digital headroom of the AD is reached). I have the ADAT boards installed and use the mixer as a router/matrix/monitor for 32 ADAT input/output channels, not using the analog inputs.
Still, buying Behringer and any other Chinese stuff makes me uneasy as one never knows if it is make with 'slave labour'. A couple of years ago I talked to this Tibetan monk who had been forced to work in a special factory for 23 years. This factory is huge (seventy square kilometers, it is said) and producing for many foreign companies. Note that according to international standards it is not a prison; as there is no fence around it and you can freely walk out if you want. Instead, there is miles and miles of desert around it and many that walk out die in this desert. Many Tibetans and other ethnic/social groups that are not favoured by the Chinese government are forced to work in this factory, getting fed but not getting wages of any significance. This particular Tibetan I spoke with did eventually walk out and made it through the desert and finally across the Nepalese border. He showed me the marks of the wounds he got during the time he worked in this factory, wounds from when he got punished when getting caught reciting his Buddhist prayers. These marks didn't look nice and left nothing to the imagination.
Many Chinese themselves also work under conditions that would be totally unacceptable in most of the world. Still, China is probably already economic power number one in the world and all one can hope for is that the increase in general wealth in China will eventually better the conditions for the common man there, like it happened in Europe over the last hundred and fifty years.
My uneasiness is about my dilemma that my greed for equipment and my limited budget sometimes make me choose for equipment that I know is manufactured under conditions that in my heart I do not at all agree with. I admit not being clean.
So, personally I do like very much that Clavia equipment is made in Sweden, a bit more expensive as when made in China, but well, it is a fair price. I never feel uneasy about Clavia stuff.
/Rob |
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